A day about eating candy, wearing fun costumes and watching a popular genre of movies is more popular than a day commemorating a failed terrorist attack in a sectarian conflict? Especially between two religious groups that have shrinking memberships in the population.
Let me shake my hand at the clouds and swear my undying loyalty to how much better than me and innately deserving of rulership a specific family dynasty is.
But if we aren't homogenized, how can we market the Halloween special episodes, the Halloween merch, the Halloween hamburger menu and the Halloween latte?
Like many holidays, it can be overdone. But kids have fun; and flirty costumes aren’t required. The last time that I took my daughter out before she aged out of the tradition, we went as plague doctor and victim. We worked for weeks on the setup. It was a lot of fun for the family.
The pseudo-holiday I object to is “Black Friday” which shouldn’t be a thing here in Canada, but it is now. It’s ridiculous. Our Thanksgiving is in October, not November. And given the official anti-Canadian policy in the U.S. federal government, I couldn’t be any less interested in U.S. marketing exports.
For a whole bunch of reasons, it makes sense for sales to be coordinated between different countries, especially neighbors. It allows marketing dollars to be used more efficiently, the logistics of shipping and warehousing are simplified, etc.
Besides, Black Friday is more about kicking off the Christmas buying season than celebrating Thanksgiving. It starts the very day after the preceding major holiday (and when many Americans have the day off). Unless Canadians would be done with their Christmas shopping by now, it would not make sense to tie to Canadian Thanksgiving.
Opposing it because you dislike consumerism makes sense. Opposing it because its date is determined by US Thanksgiving as opposed to Canadian Thanksgiving does not.
Halloween is easily one of the best holidays of the year. There's no seriousness or weight to it, there's no need to make travel plans, there's no need for a big dinner. You have no obligation to do anything, or you can go as deep into it as you want. It's entirely fun, and at least where I live, the weather is at the absolute best. It's going to be low 60s, sunny, and peak foliage today. I loved it as a kid, dressing up and going house to house; then in college/kid-free partying, and now with kids of my own to see it through their eyes. The only downside is that the next day it's November, and DST ends.
All traditions take up air. If you aren't conscious about which traditions you continue and which ones you let go of, we'll end up at a least common multiple drained of all meaning except profit.
> Who wants an excuse to have fun, have kids and co-eds dress up in flirty clothing, and eat candy?
Now that you mention it, kids in flirty clothing is one of the things which isn't great.
I agree, it seems downright easy to pick up. It also falls (at least here in europe) at the beginning of the colder half of the year at a time when summer events are winding down, with christmas still almost two months away. It's a pretty good thing to fill the gap. (Doesn't mean you should indulge overpriced decor though)
I don't know why you got downvoted, your sarcasm implies an insightful point that shows why it spreads the way it does.
I personally like that people can take a day to be silly and even dress up and try things they never have before. If you don't like the commercialization of it, don't play into it. Getting some makeup and a few accessories, and making lasting memories with friends and family only sound positive to me. Perhaps this is why it is more popular now than Easter; as anyone can participate sans religion.
It seems part of your comment may be alluding to today, the anniversary of the Itaewon crowd crush.
I want to emphasize that Halloween was not commodified or appropriated to express dissent here. It was a very localized phenomenon primarily celebrated in the traditional "foreigner neighborhood" near the now mostly defunct yongsan army base.
The deaths were a failure of the government, on several levels, to control excessive crowding in alleyways. Our friends that died that day were not protesting, they were just out having fun
Rest in Piece. I was mainly talking about Shanghai, but this terrible event in Korea is always on my mind this day. In Shanghai Halloween was used for dissent, people would dress up in controversial outfits (obscene and or politically charged) this year it is banned to dress up, although maybe only in certain places. The crowds were also something of a concern. Maybe half a million people would practically flood whole neighbourhoods. It was kinda scary. Police used sharing bikes to cordon off certain areas…
All Saints Day, which “All Hallows Eve" is the vigil celebration of, came not from the US or the Celts:
> […] so the Orthodox tradition celebrated All Saints on the Sunday after Pentecost (as it still does), while Syrian tradition held it on the Friday after Easter. On 13th May 609 AD (or perhaps 610 AD) Pope Boniface IV consecrated the Pantheon in Rome as a Catholic church dedicated to all saints and ordered an annual celebration of the saints in that church on this date, which is held to this day. At some point in his pontificate (731-41 AD), Pope Gregory III dedicated a chapel in St Peters to all saints and martyrs and some accounts say this was on November 1, making this the potential origin for the western date for All Saints Day.
This date then became popular under the rule of Charlemange:
> This urging suggests that All Saints Day was perhaps celebrated on other dates and Alcuin, by this stage back at the court of the Frankish ruler Charlemagne at Aachen, preferred the tradition he knew from England. Or it could be that he is urging the importance of the feast rather than the date of the celebration per se. What we do know is the November 1 date caught on in Frankia, with Pope Gregory IV promulgating it as the date for All Saints Day for both East and West Frankia, and this was reinforced by an edict by Louis the Pious in 835 AD as recorded in the entry for that year in the Chronicon of Sigebert of Gembloux. With the date established across the Frankish Empire, it became more widely adopted and over the next two centuries became standard Catholic liturgical practice across Europe.
* Ibid
But it was not a universal date yet, as the Irish/Celts celebrated the feat on a completely different day:
> The Félire Óengusso or “Martyrology of Óengus” is another martyrology, attributed to Saint Óengus of Tallaght. It seems to date to the ninth century and is based on earlier English martyrologies (like that of Bede), but with significant local Irish additions. It mentions a feast of All Saints in its listing for April 20:
* Ibid
The History Hit article mentions Pope Gregory VII (1073–85), but November 1 was already around before he got there. He mainly told the folks celebrating in April/May to stop and to celebrate in November.
But great article if you enjoy reading grumpy British humor roasting America
In the Netherlands, on the “elf” of November, children make handmade lanterns and wander door to door, singing for candy. It’s frikkin cute— that’s why Halloween is discouraged.
A day about eating candy, wearing fun costumes and watching a popular genre of movies is more popular than a day commemorating a failed terrorist attack in a sectarian conflict? Especially between two religious groups that have shrinking memberships in the population.
Let me shake my hand at the clouds and swear my undying loyalty to how much better than me and innately deserving of rulership a specific family dynasty is.
[dead]
But if we aren't homogenized, how can we market the Halloween special episodes, the Halloween merch, the Halloween hamburger menu and the Halloween latte?
Thanksgiving seems to be a harder sell.
Like many holidays, it can be overdone. But kids have fun; and flirty costumes aren’t required. The last time that I took my daughter out before she aged out of the tradition, we went as plague doctor and victim. We worked for weeks on the setup. It was a lot of fun for the family.
The pseudo-holiday I object to is “Black Friday” which shouldn’t be a thing here in Canada, but it is now. It’s ridiculous. Our Thanksgiving is in October, not November. And given the official anti-Canadian policy in the U.S. federal government, I couldn’t be any less interested in U.S. marketing exports.
For a whole bunch of reasons, it makes sense for sales to be coordinated between different countries, especially neighbors. It allows marketing dollars to be used more efficiently, the logistics of shipping and warehousing are simplified, etc.
Besides, Black Friday is more about kicking off the Christmas buying season than celebrating Thanksgiving. It starts the very day after the preceding major holiday (and when many Americans have the day off). Unless Canadians would be done with their Christmas shopping by now, it would not make sense to tie to Canadian Thanksgiving.
> Black Friday is more about kicking off the Christmas buying season
Yes, exactly. A holiday celebrating rampant consumerism? Fuck that shit.
Opposing it because you dislike consumerism makes sense. Opposing it because its date is determined by US Thanksgiving as opposed to Canadian Thanksgiving does not.
[dead]
Totally crass. Who wants an excuse to have fun, have kids and co-eds dress up in flirty clothing, and eat candy?
Who would EVER think that's a good idea.
America sucks.
Halloween is easily one of the best holidays of the year. There's no seriousness or weight to it, there's no need to make travel plans, there's no need for a big dinner. You have no obligation to do anything, or you can go as deep into it as you want. It's entirely fun, and at least where I live, the weather is at the absolute best. It's going to be low 60s, sunny, and peak foliage today. I loved it as a kid, dressing up and going house to house; then in college/kid-free partying, and now with kids of my own to see it through their eyes. The only downside is that the next day it's November, and DST ends.
All traditions take up air. If you aren't conscious about which traditions you continue and which ones you let go of, we'll end up at a least common multiple drained of all meaning except profit.
> Who wants an excuse to have fun, have kids and co-eds dress up in flirty clothing, and eat candy?
Now that you mention it, kids in flirty clothing is one of the things which isn't great.
HN has no chill these days. Whoever is downvoting a sarcastic comment about Halloween... woof and BOO too you.
I agree, it seems downright easy to pick up. It also falls (at least here in europe) at the beginning of the colder half of the year at a time when summer events are winding down, with christmas still almost two months away. It's a pretty good thing to fill the gap. (Doesn't mean you should indulge overpriced decor though)
I don't know why you got downvoted, your sarcasm implies an insightful point that shows why it spreads the way it does.
Having the drunken dregs of society throw eggs and illegal firecrackers soundy truly fun and sophisticated.
[flagged]
Halloween was explicitly banned in New England for most of our history.
I believe the Irish brought the tradition here much later and then American consumerism came along turning into what it has become
Personally I'm over it, candy is bad for you anyway.
I personally like that people can take a day to be silly and even dress up and try things they never have before. If you don't like the commercialization of it, don't play into it. Getting some makeup and a few accessories, and making lasting memories with friends and family only sound positive to me. Perhaps this is why it is more popular now than Easter; as anyone can participate sans religion.
In some places in Asia, Halloween is commodified and appropriated to voice dissent. It was crazy to see. It is now crushed (some times literally rip)
It seems part of your comment may be alluding to today, the anniversary of the Itaewon crowd crush.
I want to emphasize that Halloween was not commodified or appropriated to express dissent here. It was a very localized phenomenon primarily celebrated in the traditional "foreigner neighborhood" near the now mostly defunct yongsan army base.
The deaths were a failure of the government, on several levels, to control excessive crowding in alleyways. Our friends that died that day were not protesting, they were just out having fun
Rest in Piece. I was mainly talking about Shanghai, but this terrible event in Korea is always on my mind this day. In Shanghai Halloween was used for dissent, people would dress up in controversial outfits (obscene and or politically charged) this year it is banned to dress up, although maybe only in certain places. The crowds were also something of a concern. Maybe half a million people would practically flood whole neighbourhoods. It was kinda scary. Police used sharing bikes to cordon off certain areas…
My apologies if I jumped to conclusions. It's a sensitive night for me
Same here, take care. No jumping to conclusions, this will always be with us. Sorry for the mix up, but it was not really a mix up.
Fun is cool actually. That’s my hot take
It’s a collective action problem. The government should ban it.
technically, American imported it from Celtic traditions and the source is much closer to home for UK
https://www.historyhit.com/what-are-the-origins-of-halloween...
> https://www.historyhit.com/what-are-the-origins-of-halloween...
All Saints Day, which “All Hallows Eve" is the vigil celebration of, came not from the US or the Celts:
> […] so the Orthodox tradition celebrated All Saints on the Sunday after Pentecost (as it still does), while Syrian tradition held it on the Friday after Easter. On 13th May 609 AD (or perhaps 610 AD) Pope Boniface IV consecrated the Pantheon in Rome as a Catholic church dedicated to all saints and ordered an annual celebration of the saints in that church on this date, which is held to this day. At some point in his pontificate (731-41 AD), Pope Gregory III dedicated a chapel in St Peters to all saints and martyrs and some accounts say this was on November 1, making this the potential origin for the western date for All Saints Day.
* https://historyforatheists.com/2021/10/is-halloween-pagan/
This date then became popular under the rule of Charlemange:
> This urging suggests that All Saints Day was perhaps celebrated on other dates and Alcuin, by this stage back at the court of the Frankish ruler Charlemagne at Aachen, preferred the tradition he knew from England. Or it could be that he is urging the importance of the feast rather than the date of the celebration per se. What we do know is the November 1 date caught on in Frankia, with Pope Gregory IV promulgating it as the date for All Saints Day for both East and West Frankia, and this was reinforced by an edict by Louis the Pious in 835 AD as recorded in the entry for that year in the Chronicon of Sigebert of Gembloux. With the date established across the Frankish Empire, it became more widely adopted and over the next two centuries became standard Catholic liturgical practice across Europe.
* Ibid
But it was not a universal date yet, as the Irish/Celts celebrated the feat on a completely different day:
> The Félire Óengusso or “Martyrology of Óengus” is another martyrology, attributed to Saint Óengus of Tallaght. It seems to date to the ninth century and is based on earlier English martyrologies (like that of Bede), but with significant local Irish additions. It mentions a feast of All Saints in its listing for April 20:
* Ibid
The History Hit article mentions Pope Gregory VII (1073–85), but November 1 was already around before he got there. He mainly told the folks celebrating in April/May to stop and to celebrate in November.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Saints%27_Day § History
The octave wasn't added until much later, under Pope Sixtus IV (1471–84), and so any kind of festivities on October 31 (vigil) were even later.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_(liturgy)
Little more than the word.
the costume tradition too, my bartender explained more to me the other night, not sure my reference is the best to explain the connection
God forbid kids have a fun holiday to get candy and dress up.
tl;dr
Former editor of GQ hates America and thinks brits are dumb for having fun on Halloween.
Played dress up at GQ for entire career, hates people who dress up. :|
But great article if you enjoy reading grumpy British humor roasting America
In the Netherlands, on the “elf” of November, children make handmade lanterns and wander door to door, singing for candy. It’s frikkin cute— that’s why Halloween is discouraged.
You know the day destroys the night,
And night divides the day,
So we'll have more fun on Halloween,
After the grumpy words from the UK.
Happy Halloween
Eh. I’m American. I love grumpy British humor roasting us. This article was more “old man screams at cloud”.
Basically, we’ve been called worse by better. This roast was hardly worth an amused tsking.
I love grumpy British humor, but I think he forgot to put in the humor.
Maybe that’s it.
Right? Conservative voice going to yell about younger generations playing their music too loud.
Throwing rotten eggs and illegal firecrackers sounds par for the course for leftists on the dole.
Conservative not the political party, ya dingus. Conservative in the "prefers tradition and dislikes new things" sense.