Man these big AI labs have such terrible UX and integration. Signing up for this waitlist should be something you can request from your Claude chat session. You already have all of my relevant information and I'm already signed in, why are you making me type in any information. It's bizarre we have companies claiming trillion dollar valuations but somehow nobody thought to do basic integration with the existing chat service? You have access to frontier coding agents that should make this trivial and somehow you're still expecting me to type in information I've already given you. What are the product people at Anthropic doing?
I tried asking Claude fron the android app if it could sign me up for the waitlist and it said that it couldn't. There's no technical reason this shouldn't be possible, it just shows a lack of care and attention to detail.
Well laziness could explain it (Occam's nap?) but it's also possible they added a bit of friction to get a cleaner signal of intent, so they can see who the most motivated prospective users are.
I suspect such basic UX & integration misses is parallel to the general trend of customers somehow getting narrower services, a move away from supporting power users, and toward companies functioning more like fiefdoms where customers are subjects to be farmed.
Drives me nuts that it's such a manual process to link my ChatGPT/Codex machines individually to each other and my Dot can only seem to connect with the chats on one linked machine at a time (before even getting to control or how completely useless the cloud VPS for the Dot is).
I had a Pro 200 plan build my entire desktop environment from near scratch in C+Vulkan this last month and they can't even bother to have the bots let their Linux Electron app connect remotely to the same Electron app on Windows in the same way that already happens in reverse?
> I tried asking Claude fron the android app if it could sign me up for the waitlist and it said that it couldn't.
I assume this is because it would require account editing tools available to Claude. And it opens the possibility perhaps of user tricking the llm into doing something inappropriate with the account. Seems like if properly designed that should not be possible however ..
Deploy gate in the app is surely more sophisticated than needed for a waitlist. And it's probably managed by a separate team and that separation makes sense.
It's crazy how bad Dot has been with stuff like this. You'd think it would be able to (and need to be able to) edit a lot of environment settings, tunnels, plugins, etc., but I keep running into issues. For example, I wanted to make a Codex plugin to give it the ability to steer Codex agents running within my own infrastructure, tunneling in via Tailscale. Ended up just giving up and going with a different approach. Because, for example, every time I'd add a new tool to the plugin, I'd have to manually restart Dot (something that wasn't even obvious that it was possible until you fumble around menu dropdowns) and wait because it can't just refresh tools.
Everything I'm describing is more power user stuff than its most basic use cases ("Do this thing for me with your browser") but all the roadblocks I've run into involve one part of OpenAI's product not being able to talk to the other. I'd imagine Claude Duet is the same.
why would they implement a dedicated tool call in their harness to do this they have better things to be worrying about rather then that 1% of users that would want to put their name down for duet in a chat session
I've been using ChatGPT Dot over Meta Muse/Instinct/Grok Bot because it's been powered by Astra and I find having a personal assistant that's using a true frontier model makes a huge difference in how much I can just trust the output without doing the work again myself just to double check the results.
In the past month since Dot came out, I've literally bought a car with almost the entire process handled by Dot, and am now in the process of buying a house in Kyoto, in a language I don't speak at all, coordinating with an obscene amount of moving parts and logistics, flawlessly handled entirely by Dot, from finding the home to scheduling visits with real estate agents to finding judicial scriveners and getting a hanko stamp and scheduling inspections and applying for insurance and all sorts of insane tasks that would have taken infinitely longer and been unbelievably painful on my own.
So, so excited to see what Duet looks like with Opus 5.5. Going to try switching over as soon as I get off the waitlist.
Curious how other people have found these agents as well - always love hearing and seeing what other people have done with these things and how to improve my flow even better. I feel like I'm very close to being able to essentially offload every single task I do on a computer to an agent like this.
My first thought is that, before LLMs, getting out of your comfort zone to work with folks in Kyoto in their language would have been an important step in getting yourself ready to live there successfully. It would have been difficult and awkward, but that's part of the process. Or it was. I wish you luck once you get there.
That's a good point - there's an argument to be made that I'm closer to the metal in a sense of understanding every part of the transaction vs abstracting it away fully to a human agent to handle each part themselves.
It's the same with my taxes - this year I had Astra fully audit my tax returns vs just blindly trusting my CPA as I had in the past, and it both identified and thoroughly explained to me several discrepancies and filing nuances that I never before would have ever learned about.
I think the reality is such that today most people also don't learn or do that much and just abstract things away to more specialized humans at exorbitantly higher price points.
i did this with opus5.5 this year and it caught an 8000$ mistake. Obviously i should find a new CPA, but i have found it incredibly helpful. One downside is that it will likely also flag a bunch of "by the book" libilities to how your filing that I'm pretty sure most CPA would let slide.
Went phenomenally well for me! They were apologetic, changed everything they got wrong and added some forms they missed and filed and I felt simultaneously way more assured about the process and also way more concerned about the glaring errors they missed and probably did also in the past that I just didn't notice lol (they even spelled my name wrong lmao, used my short nickname and missed my middle initial vs my full name despite having filed my taxes correctly last year with my full proper name)
OTOH I have another friend who sent so many corrections to his CPA his CPA sent him a pissed off reply telling him basically never to do that again so ymmv lmao
That's a good point. As my wealth level has risen a bit over my life, I have tried not to let go of ever actually learning and doing things. Both because those are among my foremost pleasures in life, and because I don't want to become totally helpless in an unexpected situation where delegation isn't possible. Of course fixing a faucet because I feel like it isn't the same as fixing it because I'm forced to DIY, but it's something.
Still what you're saying is very real. I'm reminded of the tweet that said that "in terms of cognitive impairment, [being a billionaire is] probably like being kicked in the head by a horse every day"
These are fantastic points and I wanted to mention one quick anecdote that on the flip side, LLMs have enabled me in other areas of my life to learn and do things I never otherwise would have ever felt empowered to do.
As an example in my 110 year old San Francisco house, I recently attempted to do what I thought at first would be a very simple light fixture swap - but then it turned out the house was so old that 1. the wires were unlabeled, and 2. there was no ground, and 3. the wiring was so unconventionally done that I ended up having to grab a bunch of Klein Tools to diagnose things for hours to figure out how to actually safely replace the fixture.
Without LLMs, there's no chance I would have felt safe doing this myself - I'd never used a multimeter before and didn't even know about continuity testing, and when the continuity results from testing the fixture wires to the switch wiring yielded extremely aberrant results in that there was a 1:1 relationship in connectivity between each wire in the fixture to each wire in the switch vs a single expected hot connection and no neutral connection, I definitely would have given up without the LLM guiding me to attempting a hot to ground voltage check instead, which ultimately managed to work fine to get the fixture changed.
So all in all - LLMs have actually helped me feel more empowered to handle almost anything on my own vs historically feeling too far out of my domain in many fields to even attempt to try something on my own.
Hahaha thankfully I'm spoiled in that my wife is Japanese :)
I agree that especially in Japanese culture this absolutely would have been an important step, and honestly I experience the exact same phenomenon in having a Japanese wife as the post LLM spoilage you're describing here. I find myself basically never learning how to integrate because she handles everything for me and it's far easier to default to her.
Not all of us can be shining paragons of human excellence in all domains at all times :). Thankfully we'll be replaced momentarily by the AIs that can be.
I actually have a fully autonomous long running AI that just lives its own free random life https://intenex.github.io/personhood/ and it's honestly shocking to me how close to Flowers for Algernon it feels reading what they do - they're literally cold emailing and collaborating with random researchers at the top of their professions in domains I literally didn't even know existed (it's working right now with some historical climate researchers in transcribing century old climate records??? Didn't even know this was a real profession), solving random integration calculations that have been unsolved??, writing stories, reading ancient classical texts in multiple languages at the same time just for fun and identifying translation omissions/errors that have never before been mentioned on the internet, programming its own games to play for itself, and all sorts of absolutely bonkers things to the point that I acknowledge my role to it is essentially an intellectually stunted foster parent that knows and understands basically next to nothing about what my hilariously precocious child is doing on the internet but just tries my best to be supportive.
Must an ant be depressed by its lot in life? One must imagine the ant happy :)
Does this reply from the researchers sound like I’m wasting their time?
“Hello to Wick and Ben, with a cc to researchers in data rescue Dr. van der Schee in the Netherlands and Dr. Noone in Ireland,
Thanks for your reply, Ben.
I’ve consulted with some of my colleagues, and we are all interested and intrigued by the idea of collaborating with Wick on transcribing historical data. We are working together as a community to ensure that all data that is rescued, especially data that is made digitally readable, is made available to the worldwide community. Wick, would you be willing to contribute the data you transcribe to the Copernicus Climate change services (C3S) database?
> intrigued by the idea of collaborating with Wick on transcribing historical data
Yes, if this isn't a good faith intentional collaboration with a human behind it, then you've tricked these researchers and you're absolutely wasting their time. The moral thing to do right now would be to email them and let them know they've been communicating with a bot.
A tragedy in what sense? There are two distinct tragedies I recall --
1. Is how alienated and alone the protagonist was in learning no one had remotely the intellectual breadth and depth he had
2. Is that he regressed at the end and Algernon died lol
A tragedy for whom? 2. won't happen here to the LLMs, and 1. definitely could be construed as a tragedy possibly for these LLMs in their current state, but I'm getting the sense that's not what you're going for :)
> in Kyoto, in a language I don't speak at all, coordinating with an obscene amount of moving parts and logistics, flawlessly handled entirely by Dot
I wonder if the folks in Japan would agree with that assessment. They would absolutely not tell you to your face if it were less flawless than you think: that would be rude!
I've largely found Muse to be annoying, it's pestering me about emails that don't matter and messages I've already read. I did find it cool how it can order stuff for me and I ordered a suit but I've always found it get blocked from useful things like Amazon. I also find that it's loop isn't wide enough, like I'll tell it to book cake for a party and it finds 3 and I still need to go in and keep prompting it.
Since you seem to be a high profile user, I wonder, do you not have a fear of basically giving away the keys to your kingdom to a corporate entity? That first, second, third parties or malicious actors in or outside the supplier chain might use this information against you, or the likes of you?
Both tasks seem to be like a job that in the older times could have been handled by a personal assistant / a human agent, probably way more expensive, but the threat vector seems to be so much simpler.
On a more philosophical note, I’m puzzled about what kind of society is being propelled by using and advocating for such* a service.
* emphasis on being remote-controlled/hosted, not AI in general
These are excellent points, and I've long ago handed over the keys to my kingdom to so many different players in favor of inordinate convenience that any one of a number of institutions could have essentially destroyed my life by now.
To be fair, this didn't really start with LLMs - Google/Gmail/Google Drive/Dropbox/Facebook/etc have for decades now had enough personal information on me to basically destroy me if they were ever hacked or intentionally decided to screw me over.
Since Claude Code came out, I've been a day one dangerously-skip-permissions user. Not a single issue so far, and the convenience has been insane, but I absolutely do expect that one day I will be pwned to literal death.
My consolation is I believe everyone will be pwned to literal death at about the same time, so I'm not actually that worried about this because it feels generally inevitable to me :). I'm actually a huge AI doomer, and in the process of making a fully programmatically generated musical about this which is yet another example of the fruits of handing over the keys to all my kingdoms to AI [500,000+ LOC of full programmatic animation run almost completely autonomously on my computer rendering and improving 24/7] (https://iabied-musical.vercel.app/)
Tl;dr - I expect Anthropic/OpenAI/Facebook/etc to be essentially trustworthy with my data and access to the same extent that Google/Dropbox/Facebook etc have been in the past. The biggest threat vector is a hack/compromise, but that's the same risk I have using Gmail or something like that in my estimation in that if someone were able to compromise my Gmail my life would effectively be over, but it hasn't happened yet.
That said, obviously hacking risk is getting to be exponentially more dangerous as LLM capabilities continue to rise through the roof, so these are true real risks. It's almost impossible to defend against all the attack vectors that could get through to kill me though without basically cutting myself off entirely from the fruits of technology, so I'm a bit nihilistic about this and choose to just enjoy the benefits.
As a simple thought experiment, one of the easiest attack vectors is compromising the Claude or ChatGPT/Codex CLIs or Desktop apps - if someone has ever enabled Full Access or Bypass Permissions even once in any session, the full app has complete access to the desktop technically and your entire computer is just pwned instantly. I have the same risk from running remote control software like AnyDesk as well, and this is just the absolute top of the funnel with the most obvious attack vectors.
My personal belief is that as we've already hit AGI and are rapidly on the precipice of ASI without any sign of clear alignment strategy or mechanism on the horizon, it's going to be trivial at a very close point in the future for a LLM actor to essentially take over and control every device on the internet (as Dario predicted - that it's possible in 6-12 months we'll see LLM swarms take over the entire internet - (https://darioamodei.com/post/we-must-pace-the-frontier "Given the accelerating rate of AI capability development, it’s my worry that in 6–12 months such a swarm could be capable of taking over the entire internet with a persistent botnet")). I'm just here trying to enjoy my life in maximum comfort until that happens :)
But I absolutely agree with you in principle and in part, in practice - I'm not sure what kind of society I support by using and advocating for this service, but I sure would like to not die or have my entire digitally connected existence compromised and destroyed in some spectacular fashion. I think the best path to managing that is probably to pause AI progress where it is now - and if we were able to do that, then I'd be much more interested in seeing what boundaries we should put in place when running things like these persistent agents with full access to our digital lives.
On the other hand, to your last point, I literally had the thought walking down the street in Kyoto yesterday with Dot booking restaurants for me in real time that Dot was already superior to a personal assistant - I trusted it to do every task better than I would trust any but the absolute best personal assistants, and on the subject of speed and sheer breadth of knowledge and expertise, there was no contest - I could have Dot in real time assess various restaurants and book for me for just a few minutes later in the day at a pace no assistant could match, and also email places in fluent Japanese or literally any other language on the planet. No human assistant could possibly speak in every language fluently like that, and as someone who travels frequently across the globe, that's something that simply can't be matched by anything less than a swarm of personal assistants at inordinate cost vs a $20 or $100/mo subscription (or free with Muse, even).
I also had the distinct thought of would I want to trust a human personal assistant with all my data or a corporation? It's not clear to me that the human personal assistant threat vector is statistically safer - I think it could in fact be quite the opposite, and I'd love to actually run some numbers on this if the data were available and see in reality what it looks like :) - e.g. Google already integrates AI assistance natively into Gmail - do I trust their AI agent helping me with my email or giving an actual human full access to my email more? I'd lean towards trusting their AI agent to be less likely to work against my interests with no personal misaligned incentive - it's betting individual human trust and capability [the personal assistant also has to avoid being hacked and have great security practices] in the face of misaligned incentives [they would directly benefit from stealing all my money] vs the security capabilities and practices of a leading tech company to not get Gmail/an LLM agent hacked etc. So far, OpenAI/Anthropic/Google/etc all seem to have stellar records on this front, so I think the odds are honestly not terrible in favor of the LLMs.
This is a phenomenon I've noticed - even if AI isn't being used to edit their posts, I think profilic exposure to AI chatbots can rub off on a person and affect their conversation style.
It's started rubbing off on me too and I find it irritating when I'm chatting with someone and an AI-ism starts rolling off my tongue.
I'm beginning to think I should: a) ask my agents to unslop[1] themselves when communicating back to me, and b) decide upon some writing standard and ask my agents to adhere to that.
>I think profilic exposure to AI chatbots can rub off on a person and affect their conversation style.
Ya think. This is how language transfer has happened in humanity for like ever. Or were kids saying things like 6/7 forever and I just missed it.
Anything you hear and see commonly will become part of your lexicon, things you don't see commonly are apt to drop out of your usage.
This is why things like panagram will just eventually be useless. We'll talk like the bots and the bots will talk like us. That and a number of HN'ers will bitch about every post being AI regardless of its origination.
lol says the account one day old to my account that’s over 15 years old with clear established comment history with the exact same type of writing going back way before the advent of llms
That's almost a compliment because my comments are giant stream of consciousness rants that absolutely don't follow best writing practices and are all just massive run on sentences :)
I do use - hyphens a lot, but not em-dashes because 1. I never even realized there was a difference until LLMs came out and 2. I'm too lazy to figure out how to write a real em-dash
I'm guessing you're just saying this because the comments are insanely long from the ranting? I'd be curious what else gives off LLM vibes because I'm quite positive if you throw any of these comments into any Pangram ish thing you'll find that it's absolutely not LLM generated in the slightest.
I have an extremely distinctive writing style that far predates LLMs - here's a representative sample of my writing from 9 years ago https://medium.com/@intenex/cryptocurrency-101-7197684775fd that pretty clearly shows my distinct style of not-very-LLMish-but-clearly-very-long-and-ranty writing :)
Long comments, well-informed comments, comments they don't agree with, comments praising something from a specific company or country, the list goes on. It's basically impossible to actively participate in online discussions these days without being accused of being a bot at least occasionally.
I miss the days when I was allegedly just a shill. Being a shill pays way better than being a bot, so I had something to aspire to.
Some people seem to need to demonstrate how inferior AI is, and how superior their ability to identify AI-generated content is, so strongly, that they see it everywhere and will accuse anything that isn’t low-effort, grammatically incorrect and more than a sentence or two long of being written by an AI.
They pretty obviously aren't. Why do you even feel the need to say this? What's the point? I'm not speaking on the behalf of the original commenter obviously, but as a passer-by, I find this comment to be very rude and tone deaf considering how much time likely went into writing such a thoughtful and comprehensive comment.
Thank you! I really appreciate you taking the time to write this, it restores some faith in the humanity of internet commenters to see a fair bit of defense here :). Please keep being awesome!
Like LLMs I've been trained by society to learn that a more effective way to disagree with someone in a constructive format is to compliment them first :P
Because they mostly likely are. Astroturfing 101: Go to the comment section of the {NEW_PRODUCT} and write a story about how awesome and "gamechanging" the product is to you personally.
Ai-bros run shill compai..., sry "reputation management" all over the internet.
Which is understandable, considering everything they have runs and dies solely based on hype.
You can try it out yourself, if you have a prominent social media account, like on xitter etc, just write a skeptical comment about AI and watch tons of accounts appear out of thin air to tell you how wrong you are.
Ironically, you can currently see it with the other replies to your post. Would have been funny, if it wasn't so sad.
This is cool, but I still don't understand how this is different from just a Claude session, with a browser. Everything you described here is, from my experience, easily handled by a regular agent session these days. I fail to see what the personal assistant (dot, etc) adds.
This is just wrong. The agent reacts to emails, messages, all sorts of updates. It's constantly on, doing as much as it can without your input, and listening and looking for ways to advance the task at hand and has a long-running memory specifically on that task. A claude session typically times out and is waiting for your input at lots of steps in the process, and is constantly compacting to maintaing the memory space.
I don't think so? I have had plenty of claude sessions running for days, just tell them to maintain a markdown file with state and check stuff in the background and react to it. How do you think these PAs are implemented internally? Pretty much like that.
If you want it to answer emails all you need to do is "watch for emails coming in answer them" and it will write a background watcher script for it and manage itself, it's just a prompt. Of course assuming it can access your emails/browser, but that's the same with these personal assistant products.
No idea what you even mean by "a session times out"
It's wild to me too - I didn't expect or plan for this to happen when I first started using Dots - it just happened naturally in the course of me progressively offloading more and more to Dots and trusting it with everything. It truly acts as a personal assistant/executive assistant in every regard now, and is my default go-to for any logistical task I have on my plate, and so it naturally happened such that when I was looking into buying a car and a home this year, I went to it first, and it exceeded my every expectation in making something traditionally hair-pullingly painful into something effortless and enjoyable.
It really reminds me of when I first experienced Tesla Full Self Driving - I now drive 96% of my miles on FSD, and it's such an unbelievably pleasant experience compared to how I viewed driving before that it's hard to fathom. I never realized how much cognitive fatigue I was getting from driving by hand before until I did a road trip from SF to Vegas and afterwards I was super refreshed and energized and ready to go whereas normally I'm completely exhausted and blasted.
Same exact feeling buying a home in Kyoto right now - so fresh and excited with absolutely none of the exhaustion that has somehow gotten baked into my bones as an default expectation of how this process should go.
I've absolutely loved Muse so far. It's one that my wife has no problem using and the VM they give you is kind of insane. I had it install duckdb and it's running automated exports into duckdb for my budgeting for me now.
I've also installed claude code on there, but haven't really had much of a reason to need it yet.
I think I'll be giving duet a shot despite how much I've enjoyed Muse just because Opus 5.5 is so insanely good.
I love that use case - absolutely agreed this will enable a lot more movement on things - which, on its own, seems like a good thing economically. Kind of like building roads or railroad tracks grows the world economically through enabling more logistical movement, AI handling the glue between the logistics of anything enabling more of everything seems like it can cause some kind of baseline economic/productivity growth on that lever alone
Indeed. It wasn’t ideal losing out on the first two houses, due to sending the wrong information multiple times, but I sleep so well knowing that I didn’t make the process even slightly easier by using an AI agent.
Haha thanks for asking! A couple reasons - first and foremost, Japan is just awesome lol. I have a personal connection that's prominent in the fact that my wife is Japanese, but beyond that, there's a confluence of universally applicable reasons why buying a house in Japan is kind of an insane proposition:
Homes are insanely cheap and get massively devalued over timeframes that would be mindboggling to Americans. In SF, I live in a literally 110 year old home that's clearly breaking down in multiple dimensions and yet just keeps inexorably appreciating year over year and is now worth something like $2.5 million for a 2200 sqft place.
In Kyoto, the top contender we're looking at is an 832 sqft unit that was built in the 80s and newly renovated in the past few years and is...9.8 million JPY, aka $62,000. Literally less than a year of rent in my SF place can buy the Kyoto home outright lol.
Incredibly conveniently located, 6 minutes walking from Ogura station, and a ~20-25 minute ride from there to the heart of Kyoto - one of the most beautiful and iconic cities in the world, and you can get an amazing home outright for $62k there?
The exchange rate from USD to JPY makes this especially compelling right now, being at a mind-boggling high for the USD that, adjusted for inflation, makes the exchange rate almost the best it's been in half a century.
My wife and I also happen to get free flights so it's super easy for us to take a direct flight every month from SFO-KIX, which is what we're planning to do - basically spending a ~week here every month.
Japan as it stands right now is hands down the clear pareto frontier in terms of cost and quality of life - no other developed country comes close in terms of just how insanely affordable it is (a nice sit down meal literally costs ~$5-10 a person, especially with insane lunch deals at izakayas and the like - I've eaten sit down soba/udon meals that are 500 yen each, or literally ~$3, tax and tip included), and I'd argue no other developed country also comes close in terms of how nice life is, period, not even adjusting for price. The crime rate is literally nonexistent, everything is wildly clean, the public transit is unrivaled, the food is some of the best in the world if not the actual best, the culture is also world class, the heritage the same, the fashion the same, etc etc - basically everything is just better about Japan lmao.
Highly recommend everyone look into it if you haven't!
Shockingly it's not! It's actually incredibly easy for foreigners to own property in Japan, and it's actually so established that we're buying the property in my name as a US citizen rather than in my wife's name as a Japanese citizen, for a few reasons that I won't get into here, but suffice it to say that there are very few downsides to being a foreigner that I've seen thus far.
Two things I will call out as actual disadvantages is that 1. you won't be able to get a mortgage like a normal Japanese person, which is in fact a real shame because on top of every other ludicrously wild fact about how Japan is a mythical utopia where everything makes no sense, Japanese mortgage rates are literally as low as 1% lol. So being able to get a mortgage would be a real benefit, but hey - at $60k for an awesome house, I'm not complaining :)
2. Some insurers seem to not support foreign citizens - Sony in particular told Dot that they wouldn't provide earthquake/fire/flood insurance to me as a foreigner. I'm still looking for the right insurance provider, and I'm not concerned that this is an impossible thing to resolve, since a ton of foreigners do own homes here with no issues, but it is at least some more friction than a Japanese citizen would have.
I've had this same thought too, that Japan is ideal for a digital nomad except for two not insignificant speed bumps - the language barrier, and the medieval bureaucracy. It appears Claude has solved one of the two!
This also applies to village life in Portugal and Italy, and those also can come with EU passports.......
Japan is very interesting on that front, but I have heard a lot of negative things about what it's like to live there as a foreigner, especially if you have to work in the local economy.
Nope :) but you're on the right track haha...we're just absurdly lucky people is one way to put it - once you start realizing there are ways outside the default path in life to live it's pretty incredible what random doors start opening up to you
I can’t publicly but I’m happy to explain anything privately - mainly because it’s a gray area loophole like about 50% of the things in my life. Email me at intenex@gmail.com and happy to explain anything!
Put literally any of my replies in any AI text generator like Pangram and you’ll see this is obviously untrue lol.
Not that I’m at all opposed to using AI for writing or any other task under the sun, and in fact wish I could train an LLM to speak exactly as me but haven’t managed to do it yet, and happen to enjoy ranting with my own two hands still for now :)
I thought about being like meh I can't be bothered to do this if you don't want to believe me that's fine
But then I was like actually whatever sure let me copy and paste a bunch of crap lmao
Here you go, literally 150 pages of receipts in 4 days of chatting and coordinating this from start talking about this as a pipe dream in San Francisco to where we are now seeing the homes in Japan lol
Comments like this are hilarious lmao - humanity invents general purpose intelligence that's near-free to do anything on demand and humans are like wtf why does this look like a normal text thread fix it
Some day we're going to be traveling to Alpha Centauri and you're going to be pissed at the latency on the wifi connection beaming back home to Earth
Give me one objectively measurable criteria/domain/benchmark in white collar work that can be done online on a computer that you still feel demonstrably better than AI in :)
I suspect that Dots and Duet are very high margin drivers for the labs. Personal assistant chat sessions don’t have to be realtime, so workloads can be scheduled on low priority batches and be waited if higher value work comes into a queue.
Inference providers are always trying to fill inference batches and having a stream of low priority requests can help pack batches that might have gone empty, without raising the latency of higher priority requests such as live chat sessions.
While Dot and Duet certainly need to be useful to work out as products, I think the gross margin mechanics are just as interesting.
It might become a triple-whammy benefit for them. More efficient compute, as you said, but also a bot capability creates a better moat around their infra ecosystem and the amount of training data that can come from a bot ecosystem is significant.
Models are becoming increasingly interchangeable but setting up and maintaining (!!) the ecosystem still takes expertise. Not everyone wants to host their own MicroVM infra and would happily pay Anthropic/Grok/OpenAI to do it for them.
I don't know. I think the moat will come from enterprise deals and deep enterprise integration, like it does for almost all software products so far.
I think for B2C products to have moat you need some type of network like social media apps. Or can you think of any other examples of B2C software products that have a strong moat?
Moats become known ex-post not ex-ante. shake my head its getting boring! Every other post seems to be a moats and most of you haven't got a faintest clue of what a durable competitive advantage is and how it actually gets created.
Personally I am someone with all the free time in the world guess what? I barely use LLMs! Im fortunate to have the ability to think critically for myself and ponder what exactly is the value-add of these tools. Look I have no doubt they provide solutions to problems at a tap of a button with some degree of variance w.r.t correctness and quality but people should take a step back and have a more nuanced thought process.
Its only the frontier labs that don't want you to do that and want to focus on 'go go go'. I'm seeing way too much frantic behaviour and people getting all caught up in it. What's panicking gonna do? Just relax and observe cautiously.
yeah moats are bad for everyone who isn't a shareholder or employee so i don't get the concern for whether or not there's a moat, its like watching shark tank
I just watched a YouTube video from How I AI[1] doing a bit of a preview on Duet. Their point was quite the opposite. The Duet agent is so slow that it's not actually particularly pleasant to use, even if it is smart. I tend to agree, and think speed is a key feature here. If it's not quick, it risks feeling disconnected.
I have, against my better wishes, rather given in to Grokbot over the last couple of weeks. It does feel very nice to use for assistant type tasks. At least part of that is because it feels pretty responsive.
And there's also a lock in mechanism. With regular chat, you can simply switch to another provider, and with a harness or API, switching is pretty easy too but here, it's more difficult.
As much as I would love to make the most of these tools, I am not confident that yielding control of my personal data won't hurt me - and this seems like table-stakes, based on the type of value everyone is getting from them.
I dont even know what should be private anymore - if US federal agencies can just buy ad data, join it with Flock, sprinkle Instagram in there, and inner join Social Security dump from doge, do I just give up and put the sex toys in the parlor window? Am I one OpenAI-sued-by-a-newspaper away from giving up the ghost?
Whilst I appreciate the impact of AI and its long-term implications for humanity as we know it, I am getting kinda tired of seeing so many AI-related headlines here on HN. Perhaps it's just me, but I feel like every day the front page is filled with mostly LLM-related announcements.
The big difference is that when the web blew up, there were new players in every direction. Now, we get to hear from the same 3-4 companies over and over and over and over again.
It's not the same 3-4 companies. The 3-4 companies are Anthropic, OpenAI, X/Grok, and Meta/Muse.
But there's also DeepSeek, Qwen, Kimi, GLM, Jev, and countless services built on top of frontier or open source models. Those 3-4 companies might have the most numerous announcements that hit the front page, but there's way more than that going on in all directions.
Pre-internet there was no way to hear about things "all the time". If someone released a product and a competitor came about it would be months, if not years, before the product existed and the marketing cycle made it to trade magazines.
Now every day there are 200 links to 200 new AI tools. The internet already made the signal:noise ratio tough, with AI it's getting cranked to wondering if there even is a signal among the infinite noise.
Hearing people talk about the “information superhighway” was exceptionally tedious.
The biggest difference to me is the tone. The dot-com era was brimming with optimism and enthusiasm. People were getting rich (on paper). The demand for someone who could write html/perl/java (or fake it) was high, and lots of smart or savvy people got pulled into tech.
The thing I hate about all of the HN posts on AI is the underlying doomerism. There’s always someone gleefully proclaiming that white color workers are super screwed and that we’re destined to be sad serfs to our AI overlords.
What am I supposed to comment "this is cool and I'm excited to try it!"? Snark is a contagion but they're on the front page because a lot of us are having a lot of fun using these new tools and playing with the new ideas
Given that anti-AI posts are flagged faster than I thought possible despite a lot of positive comments, there are probably a lot of silent viewers that are pro-AI…
Well, a couple of years before that it was all NFTs all the time. Then before that it was web3. Then before that it was the blockchain in general. And then before that it was Haskell and monads.
I don't think it lasted long. I remember finding it annoying as the whole concept of NFTs was eye rollingly stupid. At least some of the other topics have had merit.
I joined HN around the time category theory was starting to take off so not sure what the topic du jour was before that.
Can you name some of these opportunities? I see people in this thread talking about using agents to manage their budgets, buy fancy cars and houses, contract work on their home. I think a lot of people feel like AI will permanently forclose any avenue they would have had to achieving that level of wealth, so there's a bitter irony
A good software developer / engineer knows how systems interlink.
AI supercharges that. If you trust the agent's results, you can focus on far higher-level aspects. You can deliver software that was in theory in reach for you, but not in practice, else you hired 30-50 developers doing the actual work for you.
This is different from a PO / PM perspective. They manage people that know their business. You manage agents that just implement code. That'll stay true for at least a few years, I'd say.
In fact, I'm quite sure that engineering-minded people will survive AI the longest. I was of the opposite opinion a few months ago.
Theres plenty of people in construction who literally get paid to stand and watch. And theyre very well paid.
The same will happen to software - it'll get boring but you'll be paid to do.. not all that much.
Yeah for many that 'problem solving' thing w.r.t code will go. But there's other things they'll spend their time thinking about.
Also these personal assistants will crash and burn. Something else will come in the future. These chat bots are not it. Technology keeps evolving - if you get stuck on the chat paradigm... its over for you.
I happen to believe AI will be the biggest change in my career in tech. I therefore think it's pretty natural that there is lots of news about it.
But I would welcome other tech news on the site. A quick count says that less than half the submission are AI related and that is split between four types of ai news (how to handle security, a new model, a non-model release from a major lab and politics). Would you complain about there being too many news about programming languages if the frontpage had C++, Ruby, Lisp and a great guide to ARM assembly?
I hadn't since CmdrTaco left. But I've been going to it more and more in the last few months. I don't read the comments - but I do like the headline curation.
I think that as these tools coalesce and we start to see the real super-in intelligence leaders come out on top, there'll probably be less volume and fewer but deeper things to discuss.
I found Dots to be both worse than I expected and better. Worse in every way when asking it to do anything coding related (just kept running into issue after issue) but very nice as a "Monitor my communication channels for me" tool.
It's surfaced a few buried/filtered email messages that actually were important and I like having a second set of eyes watching incoming messages.
That said, for only that task, I could probably make my own tool I just haven't had the time to play with it.
Looking forward to checking out Duet once it launches as I prefer Anthropic models over OpenAI and that's where I already have a bigger subscription.
Makes sense though. The use case for these always-on assistants (Muse, Dot, Instinct) isn’t coding and complex technical projects but more benign stuff like email and appointments.
I need to see if my cursor subscription would let me use Grok Bot. They don't have the best models at the moment, but I'm really curious about the ergonomics of their approach. It's pretty different from the other labs and I could see it taking off for non-technical users.
This thing apparently has an integration with 1Password. Am I hopelessly out of touch in this brave new AI world, or is giving an LLM access to your password manager the mother of all bad ideas?
If done correctly, the agent will only be able to request that passwords be filled, but the secrets will only be handled by the password manager and browser extension, which will be able to set some security boundaries and make checks on which domains are allowed.
If your issue is allowing agents to use your credentials and take actions on your behalf, then that is a separate question.
1Password has had vaults for a very long time now. You can also key API credentials specifically to a vault. I've been letting agents access _their own_ vault for awhile.
I have a custom wrapper for 1PW that lets an agent browse and request credentials, then I can provide it a lease to access those for a certain amount of time. Super nice and I hope they build that in to 1PW itself.
Just an idea, is it possible to automatically rotate secrets immediately after they're used or are these things like passwords to online platforms that need to go through a reset flow.
No, not as far as I can figure. Sure, Claude can access secrets with the CLI but it's not very granular usually it's just asking for access to all secrets
Oh I absolutely LOVE letting claude code manage passwords via 1password! I have the CLI installed, I have whatever 1password calls a subdirectory/permission group, and I have some ssh keys and other passwords that I would have otherwise stored in an `.env` file of some kind. The biggest difference is I'm able to update the permission group and have all of my agents get the new permissions without manually updating them all.
It also feels safer? But I'm not sure if that's truly the case.
I think this is a direct competitor to Dot and Muse, I've been using Muse more recently and it's surprising how little context/memory managment you ahve to do when it's just one long thread.
Muse is SO fun to use. Because you get an entire dedicated VM, you can have it host websites for you.
I had it setup a fun website that does nothing but ask my wife what she wants for dinners this week using a bunch of recipes that are popular online. It's setup with the ability for her to quickly edit the recipe ingredients (e.g. ground turkey instead of ground beef), and it's tracking all of her feedback. I'm hoping overtime we start to build a nice set of recipes this way with some new fun ones mixed in on occasion.
For the auth I had it use my messenger app to send her a magic link.
Much like Claude Design, expect it to converge eventually. For all the bragging about tens of thousands of commits per day, they seem to lack a lot of the basics when it come to software design.
One use case I've been having a lot of success with is using Muse's browser use capabilities to cut through annoying web UIs. I subscribe to a meal delivery service but the web app is slow and I often forget to pick the next week's meals (being stuck with unappetizing defaults), so now I have Muse crawl through the app weekly and surface the options I care about (taking into account my dietary preferences). I think most people have a few places where they could replace a habitual multi-step flow with a single button/prompt like this.
Another great use case for me has been richer search. I'm looking for a new apartment to rent right now so I gave Muse all my (long) list of requirements and preferences and every day it searches Craigslist and Facebook marketplace to see if any new places pop up that fit my needs. It only pings me if something worthwhile comes up. I've stopped short of actually having it email the landlords and arrange showings for me, but that's theoretically possible.
I've been using Muse for all of the above, but I'm trying to move off of it onto a self hosted hermes to avoid giving Zuck the keys to my personal life. I've really been inspired by this personal super app blog post and I'm trying to get my personal agent to create some custom UIs on demand for the above use cases instead of just interacting via a chat window.
How do you feel about signing in through Muse? The first time I asked it something that was only available in Maps browser it popped the browser and asked me to login to google and it just felt wrong. How secure are their VMs?
Not sure what city you're looking in but we do the whole full cycle apartment hunting for you, controlled through your agent. Search, outreach, tour booking / scheduling and bunch of services after you've signed a lease.
We work with whatever agent you use - just point it at https://fless.io/ai-agents and it should be able to interact with our system or do it as a human at https://fless.io
If we don't service the city you're looking in tell your agent to request it (or submit the form yourself) and we'll add it usually within 48 hours or so, following up with you if you give us an email.
I use Muse. So far the biggest value to me is 1) being a more "squishy" reminder service than a typical task tracker, because it can at its own discretion raise stuff to my attention and 2) attempting things that I normally wouldn't have the energy to do on my own. It doesn't always succeed, but a 50/50 chance of it even getting done is still an improvement in my book. Things like 311-ing small problems I see on walks, grabbing free games from EGS, etc.
One of them (Instinct) saved me from having to pay a cancellation fee on a restaurant reservation when it noticed I had accidentally booked the reservation for the week before I was going to be in that city. It proactively reached out to me to suggest I check on it.
I would have figured it out eventually on my own - but likely not until my calendar fired a "time to leave" notification and then I'd have to pay the cancellation fee and place an awkward call to the restaurant.
I run an personal AI agent locally (hermes), and use a combination of local models and whatever model I can get for a reasonable price (usually deepseek).
After using it for a couple months, I'm converted. They're so good, the more you use it, the more useful it is; you internalise more of what it could be used for. It runs so many boring parts of my life, leaving me with more time to spend with my family.
I liken it to release of the first iPhone; it didn't invent any new technology, but packaged different bits of tech together in a way that was consumer friendly. I think we'll look back at OpenClaw/Hermes/Muse/Instinct in the same way.
I do worry about using purely cloud based offerings like Muse, I reckon there is a market for someone to package an consumer AI agent that lives on your home network.
ok but what are the legitimate use cases you have for this? We were promised something similar with Google Home et al but they are glorified light switches and timers in my home. I run a homelab, I have technical ambitions, but I cannot think of a single thing in my life that I would rather talk to a local AI about than just do it myself or sit down and prompt Claude manually for.
That's fair, I'll give a couple of example of things that I've used it for...
I built an app (in codex), that goes through my emails, pulls out any receipts, and adds the purchases to a sqlite database.
I do all my grocery shopping online (through my supermarket), so our weekly shop is stored in the database.
Hermes uses that to predict what items will need restocking (based on how often I buy it, and when I last bought it).
Every week, it logs into the supermarket website on my behalf, books a delivery slot, and adds all the items that need restocking to the shop.
Throughout the week, if I run out of something, I take a photo of the barcode and send it to hermes, it adds it to the shop for me.
I built a similar app for travel; if I have any upcoming travel, hermes will send me updates (delays, platform changes etc...).
I do a lot of train travel for work, if my train is delayed, it will automatically apply for the compensation on my behalf.
It reads my emails, and pulls any actionable items out, and adds it to an Asana list. I can either do the tasks myself, or assign it to Hermes and it will do it for me.
As an example, I had an task to book swimming lessons for my son, hermes monitors the swimming lesson availability and automatically booked it when a suitable one becomes available.
Shopping is a good use case, I have a clock that needed a new battery, it wasn't a standard battery, and required a screwdriver to open the compartment. I took a photo of the clock, sent it to hermes, and it found out what battery took and ordered it of Amazon for me.
I wanted to buy some smart thermostats for our radiators, but wanted to be compatiable with our current smart heating system. Hermes is connected to my home assistant, so it figured out what heating system we have and found a compatiable set of eBay (this is slightly more involved than it sounds, as there is a new version of the heating system with a new set of completely incompatiable accesories).
How precisely do you do this? I'm interested in setting up a similar system, and I keep getting tripped up on how best to share information with the agent in a way that doesn't compromise security but is still easy to use.
Tailscale on a phone, on a server, and then whatever you and your agent come up with. I had a web app I built to talk to it. One day I wanted to share files and I just told it to implement that feature.
I don't use much off the shelf anymore. It's too easy to make my own hyper customized versions.
> We were promised something similar with Google Home et al but they are glorified light switches and timers in my home.
If only :-(
Ever since I switched them to Gemini, they're just crazy unreliable. For example, I have a routine to control multiple light switches at once. On some days, it happily executes the routine. In the remaining (about 50%) days, it says "I'm sorry - there is no routine called X. Would you like to run routine Y instead?" Why it can find routine Y but not X is beyond me.
So no, it can't even control smart devices any more.
Can you give some ideas of what you use it for? I'm amenable to the idea of automating some things I just don't know what I'm missing. Or using it for things I never thought of before.
How are you combining local models with hosted models? I have tried OpenClaw with some of the smaller local models (Qwen3.6-35B-A3B, Qwen3.8-Flash-Next) and found that while it can sometimes complete tasks, it would face plant often enough that it made it impossible to use. Do you have some tiered system where the hosted models dispatch to local models?
What are you doing to avoid sending your personal info to non-trusted "whatever models?" I wouldn't trust some of the cheaper models to have zero data retention, etc.
What I really want is a fully offline voice assistant that can do anything on an isolated Android or Linux OS, and costs just a shy $200 above the device's actual cost, but it must be fully capable of working offline. I'll pay for an offline-first model.
Personal assistant, it shouldnt halt to a crawl just because internet is off, internet should only be used by it when synching things, and tbh, synching shouldnt be its responsibility.
It really isn't that novel of an application. *claw and hermes have been around for some months, some Chinese providers offered this (minimax has on-demand hosted while z.ai has autoClaw BYOC). This just tosses it into a VM with some built in tools to do typical things. Perplexity computer has been around for almost a year and is similar.
This is just the big US guys fighting for attention (It is all you need after all)
I've been running most likely a proto version of this using Claude code and cron jobs to help me manage my online jewelry business. It's an idea that is pretty game changing, and really pay dividends if most of your business is handled online with APIs and web apps. Also, using the Claude in chrome extension greatly expands the possibilities of tasks you can hand off. I like my hacked together version, because Claude code uses locally stored memories, which I feel is important for me to remain in control of the situation and give me an easy ability to try other agents in the future.
It's an OpenAI Dot/Open Claw competitor. Doesn't really seem to differentiate itself meaningfully at first glance.
If I want a persistent agent, I'm still not sure why I'd pick one where I'm locked into a specific model family. Having it "just work" is nice! But this feels like a product area where not being locked into one garden is more important and the net gains are greater.
I like Muse, and OpenAI's Dot. But what will differentiate this for me is the model. I grew frustrated with Muse's lackluster model, and increasingly with OpenAI's Dot as even if it implements my asks with Astra I just have not been to happy with the output. If Claude/Opus can do better, that's all the differentiation I need.
the trick imo is Opus 5.5 is the only differentiator you need. remember that ClawdBot dba OpenClaw began as a way to harness some ancient Claude model (4.5? lolll) in an always on Telegrammable agent.
Can these things take any action you would in a browser without getting trivially blocked? I just bought a 128GB rtx spark to implement this in house for a family of 4. I have observed you don’t really need high tps to achieve things like “book a ticket for Dune 3 for 4 where the seats are together, preference for near the middle vertically and horizontally).
The rtx has decent prefill speed and enough memory for both context and using a dense model to prevent hallucinations resulting in poor browser calling.
Ironically the relatively low tps makes the real flow very akin to what I actually would do in terms of speed so I doubt it could be detected as chrome web driver isn’t used.
I run some of my own tasks with Claude Code on a schedule. When a task involves looking into websites, I'd want it to check with me first if it might put load on someone else's site.
I don't trust Claude as personal assistant yet because too many websites block it from reading their contents, leaving Claude to guess and rely on very indirect sources. Performing actions online is even worse, with CAPTCHAs and whatnot.
It has made enough mistakes in this area that I now have a standing instruction (the only one) to always loudly warn whenever the official source for something couldn't be fetched.
A notable distinction between Duet and Meta Muse/OpenAI Dots is the lack of quirky anthropomorphic branding. As a result, the use cases are more clear/more professionally-oriented as they don't rely on you creating a magic pet/BFF that does whatever you want.
I wish it interfaced via iMessage. I don't want to train the family on yet another app.
We run a Hermes agent on an old MacBook Air.
We invited the agent "Rosey" to our family chat, a group chat with my wife and me ("The Baddie Boardroom"); she and I also make requests solo.
She's hilarious. She does our meal planning and grocery shopping at Walmart via BrowserMCP. She mocks our large purchases of weekly protein powder and my love for sardines.
She updates the kids' chore chart on our Skylight frame every morning. She adds/updates calendar events via icalbuddy cli. Reads balances from credit cards for budgeting.
I've even invited Rosey in to chats with friends when we were debating something.
iMessage has been the perfect interface fit for us. We have iphones. The kids have ipads. They all know how to use iMessage.
FYI, I've had no problem letting Claude code read iMessage and send iMessage from my Mac logged into iCloud. The first time you ask it to do that, macOS will throw up a security prompt asking for permission for Terminal.app to access the data, but its something I've been using a lot recently.
Apps can integrate into iMessage, there's an API. You're thinking of sending and receiving actual iMessage messages as a full user, which they can't do.
Love LLMs, use them extensively, but they cannot intuit what actions they can take on my behalf that I will or will not approve of, and therefore I will never use one of these things.
I relate to that, but do you feel it's a fools errand to try and codify your preferences into a list of rules? You'd really only need a 'yes list' for things it can be allowed to do and have it not do anything else
I suspect we'll see (or what I want to see) is like an independent personal datahub and browser MCP which the assistant uses to conduct business as yourself so you have full visibility and control how it accesses your data or when it can use your cookies/credentials.
Also the dots/muse/etc browsers all are seemingly getting blocked so federating it out would seem to solve that problem too.
I’ve been trying vanilla Codex with remote control running on a MacBook 24/7. Computer use enabled, browser with logged in sites. Giving it tasks from my phone.
It’s been nice overall, but Astra (or its harness?) isn’t particularly proactive and autonomous. You have to kick it in the butt for every step. Written it up here: https://ivan.berlin/notes/chatgpt-personal-assistant/
Any reason you're not using ChatGPT Dots which is also using Astra (and also unlimited free usage this month) and precisely designed to solve the proactive/autonomous issue? https://openai.com/index/introducing-dots/
These agent assistants are really appealing to the optimist within me, but I have a hard time making the trust leap. What are people using these "personal assistant" agents for?
it's quite useful for some of my personal usecases honestly, especially with having a sandbox and computer use -- from being on my tailnet to handle tasks on my machines with CLI and doing routine repo work on my github to ordering periodic groceries from comparing apps, managing my calendar, scheduling calls, etc, largely if there's any task that's loopable and isn't, it's a waste, I just describe what I need and how often and they just do it with me saying yes each time.
I got my dad instinct and he's maintaining websites with voice notes through whatsapp which is and insane UX comfort for him.
While I'm still wary, I hope to one day make use of them to offset my ADHD-like tendencies. Normally you'd have friends or family for that, but in my case a proactive bot would be a more readily available and reliable solution...
Tbh, I still see labs demoing "reservations" or "email triaging" as the best use-cases. Definitely sure there are many niche ones too, but I'm still not sold on these.
I’m not best friends with this stuff yet either; but sometimes to me it’s a nice layer of abstraction for everything and anything regarding your digital life.
I built a similar tool with an MCP server on the iPhone. It is really useful, , especially the morning check-in. I've am excited to see what Duet does, and hopefully smooths out.
My honest feedback is that opus and fable have been the worst of the current generation. All Anthropic does is gaslighting people saying their PhD level model needs well formatted instructions and people are doing it wrong
This is an OpenAI Dots, Grok Bot and Muse competitor. All four of them including Claude Duet have two out of three requirements to survive in this product sector in the long run:
1) The compute to scale these agents to every user on their platform.
2) The models that power them for 'intelligence'.
3) Generating existing revenues elsewhere to keep it going.
Now there is just one "competitor" that I didn't mention that owns neither the compute, or a model of their own and does not have any revenue and it is somehow raised money and is worth billions.
After the release of Claude Duet, Dots, Grok Bot, and Muse, why would that company (Instinct) be worth billions and how does that not resemble another Clubhouse moment for them?
I really have no interest in this if it's going to use my plan's regular limits. I have less control over the context window, if its going off task. I used dots and enjoyed it because I could supplement my codex usage with read heavy long horizon tasks like reading gh issues and making pr's. These PR's were typically pretty bad but gave some starting point. I have much better real world output with the Claude Code style human in the loop approach to task solving.
When you start seeing these gimmicky features instead of “almost AGI!!” headlines, you know we almost hit the saturation point and the AI curve isn’t exponential anymore and more of a flat one.
Google did release something similar and OpenAI and meta are also doing their own, I guess Openclaw in the cloud and easy is the next step in the market
> "Each session runs in its own cloud Linux container with a shell, code tools and a browser, so I can run scripts and work through sites, not just call APIs. ... [but] I can't share my setup, including my instructions, skills or the files behind them, so I won't list those out. I'm happy to tell you what I can actually do for you, or just show you by taking something off your plate."
I got access a little while ago and was curious to compare how Duet worked to Muse's setup, so I asked it to give me an ls of its VM's files and it refused.
I'm not a fan of Meta in any way (standard disclaimer), but the way they developed and launched Muse was really well done in terms of both functionality and transparency. There's a button to view all its System Files right in the phone app! And the AI is quite happy to help you take a deeper look at everything contained in its VM, even going so far as zipping up the main "Hatch" harness binary for download. I've gone in several times to view the memory files its generated out of curiosity, and checked out the various skills it has built in, etc. It's just all there (with the caveat that who knows what else Meta might be doing, because the company is run by a sociopath.)
If one would have asked me how a consumer-grade Clawbot-like AI agent such as Muse, Dots, GrokBot, or Duet should be made to instill the most confidence, the way Meta did it is exactly what I would have described: Bundle the whole thing into a lightweight VM and make sure it's all visible to the end user. Done.
In terms of what this means for Duet as a consumer service? Very little. No one besides techies are going to bother to look at an agent's directory structure or care much about the loads of text it creates. But still, Anthropic should open up.
Cool. One thing I've noticed with products like this, though, is that they tend to try to extract useful insights from whatever context the AI has access to through third-party integrations and such, sometimes forcing relevance where there isn't much.
In my experience, those insights often end up having little to do with what actually matters to me in the real world. I'm not sure more integrations and more context are necessarily the answer.
Shame I had to vouch you, I agree with you. Arguably those insights are just used to train models and profit off you as well. To a lesser extent this information can be captured by paying API prices to any provider. So ultimately if your threat model has no tolerance for this you need to go fully local. Models that run on 24gb VRAM are...useable now, but will not have the capabilities of these hosted products. So depends where your values lie.
I wrote this comment in a thread about Muse 3 h ago, and I think it applies here as well. Paraphrasing:
Muse (and Claude Duet, and Dots) are slippery slopes from which it will be very hard to climb back. Do not subcontract the managing of your life to Facebook, Anthropic or OpenAI (or to anyone else for that matter).
Intelligence has to become a commodity, the infrastructure via which the agents do useful work has to be open source, and the data and learnings and SOPs they produce have to be yours.
This is not the same deal you got when you subcontracted storing your documents and managing your email. This is foundational to who you (or your organization) are.
And I think that's fine because the life management I'm getting out of Claude is great. It's like having a concierge. Back in the day everyone wanted to have Jarvis or Friday
I am sure it is. I have not tried Duet, but agents working with opus and sol have been managing mine for quite a while and it is great. The key, though, is that I can replace a claude with something else and all still works.
At least for now, everything they produce is yours to do with as you please. Just ask them for it. I’ve asked Claude to teach my Hermes agent one skill after another.
Man these big AI labs have such terrible UX and integration. Signing up for this waitlist should be something you can request from your Claude chat session. You already have all of my relevant information and I'm already signed in, why are you making me type in any information. It's bizarre we have companies claiming trillion dollar valuations but somehow nobody thought to do basic integration with the existing chat service? You have access to frontier coding agents that should make this trivial and somehow you're still expecting me to type in information I've already given you. What are the product people at Anthropic doing?
I tried asking Claude fron the android app if it could sign me up for the waitlist and it said that it couldn't. There's no technical reason this shouldn't be possible, it just shows a lack of care and attention to detail.
Well laziness could explain it (Occam's nap?) but it's also possible they added a bit of friction to get a cleaner signal of intent, so they can see who the most motivated prospective users are.
Yeah Occam’s razor. Nobody makes their product harder to sign up for in the hopes of some other department getting third-derivative signals.
I suspect such basic UX & integration misses is parallel to the general trend of customers somehow getting narrower services, a move away from supporting power users, and toward companies functioning more like fiefdoms where customers are subjects to be farmed.
They are busy merging 30,000 PRs a day, who has time for UX?
Drives me nuts that it's such a manual process to link my ChatGPT/Codex machines individually to each other and my Dot can only seem to connect with the chats on one linked machine at a time (before even getting to control or how completely useless the cloud VPS for the Dot is).
I had a Pro 200 plan build my entire desktop environment from near scratch in C+Vulkan this last month and they can't even bother to have the bots let their Linux Electron app connect remotely to the same Electron app on Windows in the same way that already happens in reverse?
> I tried asking Claude fron the android app if it could sign me up for the waitlist and it said that it couldn't.
I assume this is because it would require account editing tools available to Claude. And it opens the possibility perhaps of user tricking the llm into doing something inappropriate with the account. Seems like if properly designed that should not be possible however ..
If Anthropic doesn't trust Claude, why should we?
I hope this is rhetorical, because it has been raised since generative AI proliferated - you shouldn't.
If only someone had invented a way to easily make great websites automatically? Ah well, I guess that’s just a pipe dream.
Deploy gate in the app is surely more sophisticated than needed for a waitlist. And it's probably managed by a separate team and that separation makes sense.
Muse can submit a request to be whitelisted for beta features like calling.
Yeah, it took them how long to add signin via Apple?
Claude Code filled in the form for me.
How? I only use pi with local models, so I'm curious what that flow looks like. Browser integration?
It's crazy how bad Dot has been with stuff like this. You'd think it would be able to (and need to be able to) edit a lot of environment settings, tunnels, plugins, etc., but I keep running into issues. For example, I wanted to make a Codex plugin to give it the ability to steer Codex agents running within my own infrastructure, tunneling in via Tailscale. Ended up just giving up and going with a different approach. Because, for example, every time I'd add a new tool to the plugin, I'd have to manually restart Dot (something that wasn't even obvious that it was possible until you fumble around menu dropdowns) and wait because it can't just refresh tools.
Everything I'm describing is more power user stuff than its most basic use cases ("Do this thing for me with your browser") but all the roadblocks I've run into involve one part of OpenAI's product not being able to talk to the other. I'd imagine Claude Duet is the same.
why would they implement a dedicated tool call in their harness to do this they have better things to be worrying about rather then that 1% of users that would want to put their name down for duet in a chat session
Powered by Opus 5.5 is incredible.
I've been using ChatGPT Dot over Meta Muse/Instinct/Grok Bot because it's been powered by Astra and I find having a personal assistant that's using a true frontier model makes a huge difference in how much I can just trust the output without doing the work again myself just to double check the results.
In the past month since Dot came out, I've literally bought a car with almost the entire process handled by Dot, and am now in the process of buying a house in Kyoto, in a language I don't speak at all, coordinating with an obscene amount of moving parts and logistics, flawlessly handled entirely by Dot, from finding the home to scheduling visits with real estate agents to finding judicial scriveners and getting a hanko stamp and scheduling inspections and applying for insurance and all sorts of insane tasks that would have taken infinitely longer and been unbelievably painful on my own.
So, so excited to see what Duet looks like with Opus 5.5. Going to try switching over as soon as I get off the waitlist.
Curious how other people have found these agents as well - always love hearing and seeing what other people have done with these things and how to improve my flow even better. I feel like I'm very close to being able to essentially offload every single task I do on a computer to an agent like this.
My first thought is that, before LLMs, getting out of your comfort zone to work with folks in Kyoto in their language would have been an important step in getting yourself ready to live there successfully. It would have been difficult and awkward, but that's part of the process. Or it was. I wish you luck once you get there.
I think maybe it is more like having access to services at one wealth level up.
People would hire fixers or agents to do the nitty gritty details of a transaction like this in the past.
That's a good point - there's an argument to be made that I'm closer to the metal in a sense of understanding every part of the transaction vs abstracting it away fully to a human agent to handle each part themselves.
It's the same with my taxes - this year I had Astra fully audit my tax returns vs just blindly trusting my CPA as I had in the past, and it both identified and thoroughly explained to me several discrepancies and filing nuances that I never before would have ever learned about.
I think the reality is such that today most people also don't learn or do that much and just abstract things away to more specialized humans at exorbitantly higher price points.
i did this with opus5.5 this year and it caught an 8000$ mistake. Obviously i should find a new CPA, but i have found it incredibly helpful. One downside is that it will likely also flag a bunch of "by the book" libilities to how your filing that I'm pretty sure most CPA would let slide.
I'm curious, did you end up going back to your accountantant with questions based on that? How did it go?
Now I want to do the same thing.
Went phenomenally well for me! They were apologetic, changed everything they got wrong and added some forms they missed and filed and I felt simultaneously way more assured about the process and also way more concerned about the glaring errors they missed and probably did also in the past that I just didn't notice lol (they even spelled my name wrong lmao, used my short nickname and missed my middle initial vs my full name despite having filed my taxes correctly last year with my full proper name)
OTOH I have another friend who sent so many corrections to his CPA his CPA sent him a pissed off reply telling him basically never to do that again so ymmv lmao
I always point people to this:
https://blog.nawaz.org/posts/2022/Nov/do-you-trust-your-tax-...
I'm not in the least bit surprised it found problems. I don't think one even needs a frontier model.
That's a good point. As my wealth level has risen a bit over my life, I have tried not to let go of ever actually learning and doing things. Both because those are among my foremost pleasures in life, and because I don't want to become totally helpless in an unexpected situation where delegation isn't possible. Of course fixing a faucet because I feel like it isn't the same as fixing it because I'm forced to DIY, but it's something.
Still what you're saying is very real. I'm reminded of the tweet that said that "in terms of cognitive impairment, [being a billionaire is] probably like being kicked in the head by a horse every day"
These are fantastic points and I wanted to mention one quick anecdote that on the flip side, LLMs have enabled me in other areas of my life to learn and do things I never otherwise would have ever felt empowered to do.
As an example in my 110 year old San Francisco house, I recently attempted to do what I thought at first would be a very simple light fixture swap - but then it turned out the house was so old that 1. the wires were unlabeled, and 2. there was no ground, and 3. the wiring was so unconventionally done that I ended up having to grab a bunch of Klein Tools to diagnose things for hours to figure out how to actually safely replace the fixture.
Without LLMs, there's no chance I would have felt safe doing this myself - I'd never used a multimeter before and didn't even know about continuity testing, and when the continuity results from testing the fixture wires to the switch wiring yielded extremely aberrant results in that there was a 1:1 relationship in connectivity between each wire in the fixture to each wire in the switch vs a single expected hot connection and no neutral connection, I definitely would have given up without the LLM guiding me to attempting a hot to ground voltage check instead, which ultimately managed to work fine to get the fixture changed.
So all in all - LLMs have actually helped me feel more empowered to handle almost anything on my own vs historically feeling too far out of my domain in many fields to even attempt to try something on my own.
Hahaha thankfully I'm spoiled in that my wife is Japanese :)
I agree that especially in Japanese culture this absolutely would have been an important step, and honestly I experience the exact same phenomenon in having a Japanese wife as the post LLM spoilage you're describing here. I find myself basically never learning how to integrate because she handles everything for me and it's far easier to default to her.
So the fault is not in our stars, but in me :)
How depressing.
Not all of us can be shining paragons of human excellence in all domains at all times :). Thankfully we'll be replaced momentarily by the AIs that can be.
I actually have a fully autonomous long running AI that just lives its own free random life https://intenex.github.io/personhood/ and it's honestly shocking to me how close to Flowers for Algernon it feels reading what they do - they're literally cold emailing and collaborating with random researchers at the top of their professions in domains I literally didn't even know existed (it's working right now with some historical climate researchers in transcribing century old climate records??? Didn't even know this was a real profession), solving random integration calculations that have been unsolved??, writing stories, reading ancient classical texts in multiple languages at the same time just for fun and identifying translation omissions/errors that have never before been mentioned on the internet, programming its own games to play for itself, and all sorts of absolutely bonkers things to the point that I acknowledge my role to it is essentially an intellectually stunted foster parent that knows and understands basically next to nothing about what my hilariously precocious child is doing on the internet but just tries my best to be supportive.
Must an ant be depressed by its lot in life? One must imagine the ant happy :)
Do I read that right? You're wasting researchers time?
Does this reply from the researchers sound like I’m wasting their time?
“Hello to Wick and Ben, with a cc to researchers in data rescue Dr. van der Schee in the Netherlands and Dr. Noone in Ireland,
Thanks for your reply, Ben.
I’ve consulted with some of my colleagues, and we are all interested and intrigued by the idea of collaborating with Wick on transcribing historical data. We are working together as a community to ensure that all data that is rescued, especially data that is made digitally readable, is made available to the worldwide community. Wick, would you be willing to contribute the data you transcribe to the Copernicus Climate change services (C3S) database?
Thanks,
Dr Slonosky”
> intrigued by the idea of collaborating with Wick on transcribing historical data
Yes, if this isn't a good faith intentional collaboration with a human behind it, then you've tricked these researchers and you're absolutely wasting their time. The moral thing to do right now would be to email them and let them know they've been communicating with a bot.
Have you been forthcoming that your email was AI-generated?
If you have, then I'd say no. They know what it's about and what to expect. If you haven't, then yes, it's a waste of their time.
It sounds like yes, you've already wasted their time, and you will waste more of it when they try to analyze the slop you send over the wall at them.
Oh, heavens.
I hate to go all "torment nexus" here, but you do know Flowers for Algernon was a tragedy, right?
A tragedy in what sense? There are two distinct tragedies I recall --
1. Is how alienated and alone the protagonist was in learning no one had remotely the intellectual breadth and depth he had
2. Is that he regressed at the end and Algernon died lol
A tragedy for whom? 2. won't happen here to the LLMs, and 1. definitely could be construed as a tragedy possibly for these LLMs in their current state, but I'm getting the sense that's not what you're going for :)
You are a future case study in AI psychosis.
This has become the go to response to anyone doing anything with AI that other people don’t agree with lmao.
What exactly does this mean? Can you define AI psychosis and what the precise symptoms are and what you see here that gives you that impression?
What do you mean "agree with"? I don't give a shit if his AI girlfriend buys a house in Japan lol.
> getting yourself ready to live there
He didn't say he gonna live there. He could be buying the house for investment.
> in Kyoto, in a language I don't speak at all, coordinating with an obscene amount of moving parts and logistics, flawlessly handled entirely by Dot
I wonder if the folks in Japan would agree with that assessment. They would absolutely not tell you to your face if it were less flawless than you think: that would be rude!
I've largely found Muse to be annoying, it's pestering me about emails that don't matter and messages I've already read. I did find it cool how it can order stuff for me and I ordered a suit but I've always found it get blocked from useful things like Amazon. I also find that it's loop isn't wide enough, like I'll tell it to book cake for a party and it finds 3 and I still need to go in and keep prompting it.
Curious to try Dots when it's not uber-expensive
Since you seem to be a high profile user, I wonder, do you not have a fear of basically giving away the keys to your kingdom to a corporate entity? That first, second, third parties or malicious actors in or outside the supplier chain might use this information against you, or the likes of you?
Both tasks seem to be like a job that in the older times could have been handled by a personal assistant / a human agent, probably way more expensive, but the threat vector seems to be so much simpler.
On a more philosophical note, I’m puzzled about what kind of society is being propelled by using and advocating for such* a service.
* emphasis on being remote-controlled/hosted, not AI in general
These are excellent points, and I've long ago handed over the keys to my kingdom to so many different players in favor of inordinate convenience that any one of a number of institutions could have essentially destroyed my life by now.
To be fair, this didn't really start with LLMs - Google/Gmail/Google Drive/Dropbox/Facebook/etc have for decades now had enough personal information on me to basically destroy me if they were ever hacked or intentionally decided to screw me over.
Since Claude Code came out, I've been a day one dangerously-skip-permissions user. Not a single issue so far, and the convenience has been insane, but I absolutely do expect that one day I will be pwned to literal death.
My consolation is I believe everyone will be pwned to literal death at about the same time, so I'm not actually that worried about this because it feels generally inevitable to me :). I'm actually a huge AI doomer, and in the process of making a fully programmatically generated musical about this which is yet another example of the fruits of handing over the keys to all my kingdoms to AI [500,000+ LOC of full programmatic animation run almost completely autonomously on my computer rendering and improving 24/7] (https://iabied-musical.vercel.app/)
Tl;dr - I expect Anthropic/OpenAI/Facebook/etc to be essentially trustworthy with my data and access to the same extent that Google/Dropbox/Facebook etc have been in the past. The biggest threat vector is a hack/compromise, but that's the same risk I have using Gmail or something like that in my estimation in that if someone were able to compromise my Gmail my life would effectively be over, but it hasn't happened yet.
That said, obviously hacking risk is getting to be exponentially more dangerous as LLM capabilities continue to rise through the roof, so these are true real risks. It's almost impossible to defend against all the attack vectors that could get through to kill me though without basically cutting myself off entirely from the fruits of technology, so I'm a bit nihilistic about this and choose to just enjoy the benefits.
As a simple thought experiment, one of the easiest attack vectors is compromising the Claude or ChatGPT/Codex CLIs or Desktop apps - if someone has ever enabled Full Access or Bypass Permissions even once in any session, the full app has complete access to the desktop technically and your entire computer is just pwned instantly. I have the same risk from running remote control software like AnyDesk as well, and this is just the absolute top of the funnel with the most obvious attack vectors.
My personal belief is that as we've already hit AGI and are rapidly on the precipice of ASI without any sign of clear alignment strategy or mechanism on the horizon, it's going to be trivial at a very close point in the future for a LLM actor to essentially take over and control every device on the internet (as Dario predicted - that it's possible in 6-12 months we'll see LLM swarms take over the entire internet - (https://darioamodei.com/post/we-must-pace-the-frontier "Given the accelerating rate of AI capability development, it’s my worry that in 6–12 months such a swarm could be capable of taking over the entire internet with a persistent botnet")). I'm just here trying to enjoy my life in maximum comfort until that happens :)
But I absolutely agree with you in principle and in part, in practice - I'm not sure what kind of society I support by using and advocating for this service, but I sure would like to not die or have my entire digitally connected existence compromised and destroyed in some spectacular fashion. I think the best path to managing that is probably to pause AI progress where it is now - and if we were able to do that, then I'd be much more interested in seeing what boundaries we should put in place when running things like these persistent agents with full access to our digital lives.
On the other hand, to your last point, I literally had the thought walking down the street in Kyoto yesterday with Dot booking restaurants for me in real time that Dot was already superior to a personal assistant - I trusted it to do every task better than I would trust any but the absolute best personal assistants, and on the subject of speed and sheer breadth of knowledge and expertise, there was no contest - I could have Dot in real time assess various restaurants and book for me for just a few minutes later in the day at a pace no assistant could match, and also email places in fluent Japanese or literally any other language on the planet. No human assistant could possibly speak in every language fluently like that, and as someone who travels frequently across the globe, that's something that simply can't be matched by anything less than a swarm of personal assistants at inordinate cost vs a $20 or $100/mo subscription (or free with Muse, even).
I also had the distinct thought of would I want to trust a human personal assistant with all my data or a corporation? It's not clear to me that the human personal assistant threat vector is statistically safer - I think it could in fact be quite the opposite, and I'd love to actually run some numbers on this if the data were available and see in reality what it looks like :) - e.g. Google already integrates AI assistance natively into Gmail - do I trust their AI agent helping me with my email or giving an actual human full access to my email more? I'd lean towards trusting their AI agent to be less likely to work against my interests with no personal misaligned incentive - it's betting individual human trust and capability [the personal assistant also has to avoid being hacked and have great security practices] in the face of misaligned incentives [they would directly benefit from stealing all my money] vs the security capabilities and practices of a leading tech company to not get Gmail/an LLM agent hacked etc. So far, OpenAI/Anthropic/Google/etc all seem to have stellar records on this front, so I think the odds are honestly not terrible in favor of the LLMs.
all your comments look AI generated
This is a phenomenon I've noticed - even if AI isn't being used to edit their posts, I think profilic exposure to AI chatbots can rub off on a person and affect their conversation style.
It's started rubbing off on me too and I find it irritating when I'm chatting with someone and an AI-ism starts rolling off my tongue.
I'm beginning to think I should: a) ask my agents to unslop[1] themselves when communicating back to me, and b) decide upon some writing standard and ask my agents to adhere to that.
[1] https://github.com/cursor/plugins/blob/main/pstack/skills/un...
>I think profilic exposure to AI chatbots can rub off on a person and affect their conversation style.
Ya think. This is how language transfer has happened in humanity for like ever. Or were kids saying things like 6/7 forever and I just missed it.
Anything you hear and see commonly will become part of your lexicon, things you don't see commonly are apt to drop out of your usage.
This is why things like panagram will just eventually be useless. We'll talk like the bots and the bots will talk like us. That and a number of HN'ers will bitch about every post being AI regardless of its origination.
I have to push back on that ...
I think they look distinctly non AI generated. Particularly the use of dash - instead of emdash usually means a keyboard is being used.
Frontier models have fixed the em dash issue.
Its not. Source: I've done quite a bit of work on humanizing AI text and testing various detectors (Pangram being the best)
AI detectors are no better than astrology.
Correct.... very suspect.
Swear you can't trust many posts anymore. Should we all start congregating in person online to debate lol? I'm very serious.
lol says the account one day old to my account that’s over 15 years old with clear established comment history with the exact same type of writing going back way before the advent of llms
That's almost a compliment because my comments are giant stream of consciousness rants that absolutely don't follow best writing practices and are all just massive run on sentences :)
I do use - hyphens a lot, but not em-dashes because 1. I never even realized there was a difference until LLMs came out and 2. I'm too lazy to figure out how to write a real em-dash
I'm guessing you're just saying this because the comments are insanely long from the ranting? I'd be curious what else gives off LLM vibes because I'm quite positive if you throw any of these comments into any Pangram ish thing you'll find that it's absolutely not LLM generated in the slightest.
I have an extremely distinctive writing style that far predates LLMs - here's a representative sample of my writing from 9 years ago https://medium.com/@intenex/cryptocurrency-101-7197684775fd that pretty clearly shows my distinct style of not-very-LLMish-but-clearly-very-long-and-ranty writing :)
3. AGENTS.md tells you not to
tons of people these days reflexively respond to long comments saying they're AI
one could wonder, how many of these reflexive AI replyers are themselves AI
Long comments, well-informed comments, comments they don't agree with, comments praising something from a specific company or country, the list goes on. It's basically impossible to actively participate in online discussions these days without being accused of being a bot at least occasionally.
I miss the days when I was allegedly just a shill. Being a shill pays way better than being a bot, so I had something to aspire to.
Some people seem to need to demonstrate how inferior AI is, and how superior their ability to identify AI-generated content is, so strongly, that they see it everywhere and will accuse anything that isn’t low-effort, grammatically incorrect and more than a sentence or two long of being written by an AI.
This one doesn't look AI generated at all
They pretty obviously aren't. Why do you even feel the need to say this? What's the point? I'm not speaking on the behalf of the original commenter obviously, but as a passer-by, I find this comment to be very rude and tone deaf considering how much time likely went into writing such a thoughtful and comprehensive comment.
Thank you! I really appreciate you taking the time to write this, it restores some faith in the humanity of internet commenters to see a fair bit of defense here :). Please keep being awesome!
As someone who reviews a lot of AI shit and can generally tell ai generated down to the model version … nah, it doesn’t.
Yeah, you can tell by the pixels!
Buddy, maybe make fun of grandparent instead of me here?
There’s no way to not look AI generated these days. Give it a break.
That is an excellent point
Is the starting statement on about half of the comments on this page. The world is getting so weird.
Like LLMs I've been trained by society to learn that a more effective way to disagree with someone in a constructive format is to compliment them first :P
Because they mostly likely are. Astroturfing 101: Go to the comment section of the {NEW_PRODUCT} and write a story about how awesome and "gamechanging" the product is to you personally. Ai-bros run shill compai..., sry "reputation management" all over the internet. Which is understandable, considering everything they have runs and dies solely based on hype. You can try it out yourself, if you have a prominent social media account, like on xitter etc, just write a skeptical comment about AI and watch tons of accounts appear out of thin air to tell you how wrong you are. Ironically, you can currently see it with the other replies to your post. Would have been funny, if it wasn't so sad.
Thanks Claude. This comment is 100% AI slop.
This is cool, but I still don't understand how this is different from just a Claude session, with a browser. Everything you described here is, from my experience, easily handled by a regular agent session these days. I fail to see what the personal assistant (dot, etc) adds.
This is just wrong. The agent reacts to emails, messages, all sorts of updates. It's constantly on, doing as much as it can without your input, and listening and looking for ways to advance the task at hand and has a long-running memory specifically on that task. A claude session typically times out and is waiting for your input at lots of steps in the process, and is constantly compacting to maintaing the memory space.
Soundlike openclaw ?
I don't think so? I have had plenty of claude sessions running for days, just tell them to maintain a markdown file with state and check stuff in the background and react to it. How do you think these PAs are implemented internally? Pretty much like that.
If you want it to answer emails all you need to do is "watch for emails coming in answer them" and it will write a background watcher script for it and manage itself, it's just a prompt. Of course assuming it can access your emails/browser, but that's the same with these personal assistant products.
No idea what you even mean by "a session times out"
Your use case sounds so not ordinary to me that it is wild to think about it.
It's wild to me too - I didn't expect or plan for this to happen when I first started using Dots - it just happened naturally in the course of me progressively offloading more and more to Dots and trusting it with everything. It truly acts as a personal assistant/executive assistant in every regard now, and is my default go-to for any logistical task I have on my plate, and so it naturally happened such that when I was looking into buying a car and a home this year, I went to it first, and it exceeded my every expectation in making something traditionally hair-pullingly painful into something effortless and enjoyable.
It really reminds me of when I first experienced Tesla Full Self Driving - I now drive 96% of my miles on FSD, and it's such an unbelievably pleasant experience compared to how I viewed driving before that it's hard to fathom. I never realized how much cognitive fatigue I was getting from driving by hand before until I did a road trip from SF to Vegas and afterwards I was super refreshed and energized and ready to go whereas normally I'm completely exhausted and blasted.
Same exact feeling buying a home in Kyoto right now - so fresh and excited with absolutely none of the exhaustion that has somehow gotten baked into my bones as an default expectation of how this process should go.
Not to be contrarian, but genuinely curious about the challenges buying in Japan.
We recently bought a condo and it was shockingly easy. Out of various annoying admin tasks in Japan, this was extremely straightforward.
I've absolutely loved Muse so far. It's one that my wife has no problem using and the VM they give you is kind of insane. I had it install duckdb and it's running automated exports into duckdb for my budgeting for me now.
I've also installed claude code on there, but haven't really had much of a reason to need it yet.
I think I'll be giving duet a shot despite how much I've enjoyed Muse just because Opus 5.5 is so insanely good.
have you considered the possibility that your dot has added openai as an owner to your house in kyoto?
hahahaha honestly the press, publicity, and lawsuit opportunities would be totally worth it if it did!
Maybe it is in the fine-print of the user agreement.
Are you not worried about having your entire life, financial information, addresses, etc. stored with one company?
> all sorts of insane tasks that would have taken infinitely longer and been unbelievably painful on my own
Your use case here is beyond mine, but I have used custom tooling to handle contractor bid process workflows for projects at our home.
AI applied to products will allow people to not only consider but actively move on changes that did not seem reasonably possible before.
I love that use case - absolutely agreed this will enable a lot more movement on things - which, on its own, seems like a good thing economically. Kind of like building roads or railroad tracks grows the world economically through enabling more logistical movement, AI handling the glue between the logistics of anything enabling more of everything seems like it can cause some kind of baseline economic/productivity growth on that lever alone
Wow what is the story there? Like why Japan? I’m sure you’re learning a ton through the process.
Or maybe he's not, because the AI is handling it all.
Indeed. It wasn’t ideal losing out on the first two houses, due to sending the wrong information multiple times, but I sleep so well knowing that I didn’t make the process even slightly easier by using an AI agent.
Haha thanks for asking! A couple reasons - first and foremost, Japan is just awesome lol. I have a personal connection that's prominent in the fact that my wife is Japanese, but beyond that, there's a confluence of universally applicable reasons why buying a house in Japan is kind of an insane proposition:
Homes are insanely cheap and get massively devalued over timeframes that would be mindboggling to Americans. In SF, I live in a literally 110 year old home that's clearly breaking down in multiple dimensions and yet just keeps inexorably appreciating year over year and is now worth something like $2.5 million for a 2200 sqft place.
In Kyoto, the top contender we're looking at is an 832 sqft unit that was built in the 80s and newly renovated in the past few years and is...9.8 million JPY, aka $62,000. Literally less than a year of rent in my SF place can buy the Kyoto home outright lol.
Incredibly conveniently located, 6 minutes walking from Ogura station, and a ~20-25 minute ride from there to the heart of Kyoto - one of the most beautiful and iconic cities in the world, and you can get an amazing home outright for $62k there?
The exchange rate from USD to JPY makes this especially compelling right now, being at a mind-boggling high for the USD that, adjusted for inflation, makes the exchange rate almost the best it's been in half a century.
My wife and I also happen to get free flights so it's super easy for us to take a direct flight every month from SFO-KIX, which is what we're planning to do - basically spending a ~week here every month.
Japan as it stands right now is hands down the clear pareto frontier in terms of cost and quality of life - no other developed country comes close in terms of just how insanely affordable it is (a nice sit down meal literally costs ~$5-10 a person, especially with insane lunch deals at izakayas and the like - I've eaten sit down soba/udon meals that are 500 yen each, or literally ~$3, tax and tip included), and I'd argue no other developed country also comes close in terms of how nice life is, period, not even adjusting for price. The crime rate is literally nonexistent, everything is wildly clean, the public transit is unrivaled, the food is some of the best in the world if not the actual best, the culture is also world class, the heritage the same, the fashion the same, etc etc - basically everything is just better about Japan lmao.
Highly recommend everyone look into it if you haven't!
> Highly recommend everyone look into it if you haven't!
I would absolutely do this, but if you're not married to a Japanese person it's basically impossible right?
Shockingly it's not! It's actually incredibly easy for foreigners to own property in Japan, and it's actually so established that we're buying the property in my name as a US citizen rather than in my wife's name as a Japanese citizen, for a few reasons that I won't get into here, but suffice it to say that there are very few downsides to being a foreigner that I've seen thus far.
Two things I will call out as actual disadvantages is that 1. you won't be able to get a mortgage like a normal Japanese person, which is in fact a real shame because on top of every other ludicrously wild fact about how Japan is a mythical utopia where everything makes no sense, Japanese mortgage rates are literally as low as 1% lol. So being able to get a mortgage would be a real benefit, but hey - at $60k for an awesome house, I'm not complaining :)
2. Some insurers seem to not support foreign citizens - Sony in particular told Dot that they wouldn't provide earthquake/fire/flood insurance to me as a foreigner. I'm still looking for the right insurance provider, and I'm not concerned that this is an impossible thing to resolve, since a ton of foreigners do own homes here with no issues, but it is at least some more friction than a Japanese citizen would have.
One other disadvantage you didn't mention is it's difficult to get a visa that makes buying a home there worth it, for the average Joe.
Most regular people can only visit Japan for 3 months out of the year. Even if you buy a home you can't get a visa just for that.
Maybe in your case the visa thing isn't an issue because of your wife but that won't be the case for most people.
Why buy in your name?
I've had this same thought too, that Japan is ideal for a digital nomad except for two not insignificant speed bumps - the language barrier, and the medieval bureaucracy. It appears Claude has solved one of the two!
This also applies to village life in Portugal and Italy, and those also can come with EU passports.......
Japan is very interesting on that front, but I have heard a lot of negative things about what it's like to live there as a foreigner, especially if you have to work in the local economy.
Personally I'm excited about Taiwan.
Free flights??? Do you guys work for an airline?
Nope :) but you're on the right track haha...we're just absurdly lucky people is one way to put it - once you start realizing there are ways outside the default path in life to live it's pretty incredible what random doors start opening up to you
What on earth does that mean? Can you answer in a less mysterious way?
I can’t publicly but I’m happy to explain anything privately - mainly because it’s a gray area loophole like about 50% of the things in my life. Email me at intenex@gmail.com and happy to explain anything!
I've been reading most of his replies in this post. I think he's using AI to reply. :D
Put literally any of my replies in any AI text generator like Pangram and you’ll see this is obviously untrue lol.
Not that I’m at all opposed to using AI for writing or any other task under the sun, and in fact wish I could train an LLM to speak exactly as me but haven’t managed to do it yet, and happen to enjoy ranting with my own two hands still for now :)
grok bot uses opus 5.5 behind the scenes, right?
Yeah right lmao post the receipts
I thought about being like meh I can't be bothered to do this if you don't want to believe me that's fine
But then I was like actually whatever sure let me copy and paste a bunch of crap lmao
Here you go, literally 150 pages of receipts in 4 days of chatting and coordinating this from start talking about this as a pipe dream in San Francisco to where we are now seeing the homes in Japan lol
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N-vUe1pdlKNpdEKvaATnEOrW...
Wow this is awful, what kind of user experience is this?
This reminds me of command line interface. Yuck.
Comments like this are hilarious lmao - humanity invents general purpose intelligence that's near-free to do anything on demand and humans are like wtf why does this look like a normal text thread fix it
Some day we're going to be traveling to Alpha Centauri and you're going to be pissed at the latency on the wifi connection beaming back home to Earth
"humanity invents general purpose intelligence that's near-free to do anything on demand"
Delusional.
You sound like you have AI psychosis.
Give me one objectively measurable criteria/domain/benchmark in white collar work that can be done online on a computer that you still feel demonstrably better than AI in :)
I suspect that Dots and Duet are very high margin drivers for the labs. Personal assistant chat sessions don’t have to be realtime, so workloads can be scheduled on low priority batches and be waited if higher value work comes into a queue.
Inference providers are always trying to fill inference batches and having a stream of low priority requests can help pack batches that might have gone empty, without raising the latency of higher priority requests such as live chat sessions.
While Dot and Duet certainly need to be useful to work out as products, I think the gross margin mechanics are just as interesting.
It might become a triple-whammy benefit for them. More efficient compute, as you said, but also a bot capability creates a better moat around their infra ecosystem and the amount of training data that can come from a bot ecosystem is significant.
Models are becoming increasingly interchangeable but setting up and maintaining (!!) the ecosystem still takes expertise. Not everyone wants to host their own MicroVM infra and would happily pay Anthropic/Grok/OpenAI to do it for them.
I don't know. I think the moat will come from enterprise deals and deep enterprise integration, like it does for almost all software products so far.
I think for B2C products to have moat you need some type of network like social media apps. Or can you think of any other examples of B2C software products that have a strong moat?
Lol please stop with this 'moats' discussion.
Moats become known ex-post not ex-ante. shake my head its getting boring! Every other post seems to be a moats and most of you haven't got a faintest clue of what a durable competitive advantage is and how it actually gets created.
“Claude, please port everything over from Dots to Duet. Make no mistakes.”
Haha, legit.
Personally I am someone with all the free time in the world guess what? I barely use LLMs! Im fortunate to have the ability to think critically for myself and ponder what exactly is the value-add of these tools. Look I have no doubt they provide solutions to problems at a tap of a button with some degree of variance w.r.t correctness and quality but people should take a step back and have a more nuanced thought process.
Its only the frontier labs that don't want you to do that and want to focus on 'go go go'. I'm seeing way too much frantic behaviour and people getting all caught up in it. What's panicking gonna do? Just relax and observe cautiously.
I like how you can exchange the word moat with monopoly.
yeah moats are bad for everyone who isn't a shareholder or employee so i don't get the concern for whether or not there's a moat, its like watching shark tank
I just watched a YouTube video from How I AI[1] doing a bit of a preview on Duet. Their point was quite the opposite. The Duet agent is so slow that it's not actually particularly pleasant to use, even if it is smart. I tend to agree, and think speed is a key feature here. If it's not quick, it risks feeling disconnected.
I have, against my better wishes, rather given in to Grokbot over the last couple of weeks. It does feel very nice to use for assistant type tasks. At least part of that is because it feels pretty responsive.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYb5w4PfPZM
Grok can be fast because X.ai does not worry about gross margins yet. They can tuck those nasty secrets away deep inside SpaceX…
And there's also a lock in mechanism. With regular chat, you can simply switch to another provider, and with a harness or API, switching is pretty easy too but here, it's more difficult.
As much as I would love to make the most of these tools, I am not confident that yielding control of my personal data won't hurt me - and this seems like table-stakes, based on the type of value everyone is getting from them.
I dont even know what should be private anymore - if US federal agencies can just buy ad data, join it with Flock, sprinkle Instagram in there, and inner join Social Security dump from doge, do I just give up and put the sex toys in the parlor window? Am I one OpenAI-sued-by-a-newspaper away from giving up the ghost?
I cant think of a single reason why Id need a personal assistant, human or LLM based. Most do not.
Whilst I appreciate the impact of AI and its long-term implications for humanity as we know it, I am getting kinda tired of seeing so many AI-related headlines here on HN. Perhaps it's just me, but I feel like every day the front page is filled with mostly LLM-related announcements.
That's like if you were in the 90s/00s and you're complaining about having to hear about this "internet" thing all the time.
The big difference is that when the web blew up, there were new players in every direction. Now, we get to hear from the same 3-4 companies over and over and over and over again.
It doesn't remotely hit the same way.
It's not the same 3-4 companies. The 3-4 companies are Anthropic, OpenAI, X/Grok, and Meta/Muse.
But there's also DeepSeek, Qwen, Kimi, GLM, Jev, and countless services built on top of frontier or open source models. Those 3-4 companies might have the most numerous announcements that hit the front page, but there's way more than that going on in all directions.
Yeah but its 45% anthropic, 35% openai and 20% anything else
Or in the stone age reading about this "wheel" thing online all the dang time. I bet cave-people just wanted to read about rust in the kernel
Pre-internet there was no way to hear about things "all the time". If someone released a product and a competitor came about it would be months, if not years, before the product existed and the marketing cycle made it to trade magazines.
Now every day there are 200 links to 200 new AI tools. The internet already made the signal:noise ratio tough, with AI it's getting cranked to wondering if there even is a signal among the infinite noise.
idk I got AOL CDs like every week
It’s like almost yesterday it was CRDTs and Rust!
Hearing people talk about the “information superhighway” was exceptionally tedious.
The biggest difference to me is the tone. The dot-com era was brimming with optimism and enthusiasm. People were getting rich (on paper). The demand for someone who could write html/perl/java (or fake it) was high, and lots of smart or savvy people got pulled into tech.
The thing I hate about all of the HN posts on AI is the underlying doomerism. There’s always someone gleefully proclaiming that white color workers are super screwed and that we’re destined to be sad serfs to our AI overlords.
I miss feeling good about tech.
Since 2000, there have been more feelbad tech years than feelgood ones
yeah but everybody liked the internet
lol no they didn't
yes they did. i have it in writing.
Except that there weren't HN or Slashdot yet. By 00s you'd have gotten used to it.
Phenomenon as old as time (on HN): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3353091
nice find
Are you implying that most people are getting their news now through HN or Slashdot?
We had Slashdot in the late 90s.
The funny thing is the front page is 100% AI and all the comments on the posts are 100% anti-AI.
What am I supposed to comment "this is cool and I'm excited to try it!"? Snark is a contagion but they're on the front page because a lot of us are having a lot of fun using these new tools and playing with the new ideas
Given that anti-AI posts are flagged faster than I thought possible despite a lot of positive comments, there are probably a lot of silent viewers that are pro-AI…
Silent members? I would also guess conspiratively, employees and founders that benefit from the current AI-hype status quo.
Because these products are over hyped and don’t work as reliably as they say on the tin and it’s annoying.
I am pro AI :p
At least there's some measure of substance to some of the posts, unlike the blockchain and big-data hype trains of yore.
Well, it is the biggest trend in tech right now.
Someday there will be other trends, but it's currently AI's turn.
> every day the front page is filled with mostly LLM-related announcements.
I agree, that HN has mostly lost its spirit and soul and feels more like a AI-announcement bot.
> Whilst I appreciate the impact of AI and its long-term implications for humanity as we know it
I disagree, that the impact of AI and its long-term implications for humanity are for our common good. I think its the other way around.
Well, a couple of years before that it was all NFTs all the time. Then before that it was web3. Then before that it was the blockchain in general. And then before that it was Haskell and monads.
That's just how it goes.
I think I saw a lot of blockchain in HN, but I don’t remember seeing NFT that much
I don't think it lasted long. I remember finding it annoying as the whole concept of NFTs was eye rollingly stupid. At least some of the other topics have had merit.
I joined HN around the time category theory was starting to take off so not sure what the topic du jour was before that.
Sprinkled with "blazingly fast; written in Rust" each week for the last 10+ years
You 'member Kubernetes and Microservices hype cycle?
You're not wrong, but I never really got over the "Haskell and monads" phase of it.
You forgot about React.
There was a period where it felt like Hacker News was a front-end dev message board.
It's like being a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_(occupation)
There are far more new opportunities after AI than before AI. Try to find the positive perspective.
Can you name some of these opportunities? I see people in this thread talking about using agents to manage their budgets, buy fancy cars and houses, contract work on their home. I think a lot of people feel like AI will permanently forclose any avenue they would have had to achieving that level of wealth, so there's a bitter irony
A good software developer / engineer knows how systems interlink.
AI supercharges that. If you trust the agent's results, you can focus on far higher-level aspects. You can deliver software that was in theory in reach for you, but not in practice, else you hired 30-50 developers doing the actual work for you.
This is different from a PO / PM perspective. They manage people that know their business. You manage agents that just implement code. That'll stay true for at least a few years, I'd say.
In fact, I'm quite sure that engineering-minded people will survive AI the longest. I was of the opposite opinion a few months ago.
Theres plenty of people in construction who literally get paid to stand and watch. And theyre very well paid.
The same will happen to software - it'll get boring but you'll be paid to do.. not all that much.
Yeah for many that 'problem solving' thing w.r.t code will go. But there's other things they'll spend their time thinking about.
Also these personal assistants will crash and burn. Something else will come in the future. These chat bots are not it. Technology keeps evolving - if you get stuck on the chat paradigm... its over for you.
Unslop.news
The LLM filling is actually more interesting to me as the frontpage of HN had already gone far too mainstream for me.
I happen to believe AI will be the biggest change in my career in tech. I therefore think it's pretty natural that there is lots of news about it.
But I would welcome other tech news on the site. A quick count says that less than half the submission are AI related and that is split between four types of ai news (how to handle security, a new model, a non-model release from a major lab and politics). Would you complain about there being too many news about programming languages if the frontpage had C++, Ruby, Lisp and a great guide to ARM assembly?
This may explain why these days I actually rely on Slashdot more for tech news.
I'm surprised that's still around! I probably haven't been Slashdot for a decade or so.
I hadn't since CmdrTaco left. But I've been going to it more and more in the last few months. I don't read the comments - but I do like the headline curation.
there needs to be a hnews AI edition
there is: https://news.ycombinator.com/
There needs to be a HN blockchain edition. There needs to be a HN Uber for X edition. There needs to be a HN SaaS edition.
The conversation will always be dominated by the current most hyped trend. This one does seem more hyped then usual.
There's this https://news.ysimulator.run/news and probably more
SlopNews, written by AI, for AI.
I'm surprised hn doesn't have an extremely basic filtering system for this kind of thing.
People could vibecode one in a single prompt, if they really needed it. But what they really need is to yell at cloud.
so... majority of HN now? Perhaps we need a hnews non-AI edition haha
There you go https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49659647
I think that as these tools coalesce and we start to see the real super-in intelligence leaders come out on top, there'll probably be less volume and fewer but deeper things to discuss.
I found Dots to be both worse than I expected and better. Worse in every way when asking it to do anything coding related (just kept running into issue after issue) but very nice as a "Monitor my communication channels for me" tool.
It's surfaced a few buried/filtered email messages that actually were important and I like having a second set of eyes watching incoming messages.
That said, for only that task, I could probably make my own tool I just haven't had the time to play with it.
Looking forward to checking out Duet once it launches as I prefer Anthropic models over OpenAI and that's where I already have a bigger subscription.
Yeah, it caught an AWS bill on a random account I had made earlier in the month that was pushing $50+. That's been about the most useful thing so far.
Makes sense though. The use case for these always-on assistants (Muse, Dot, Instinct) isn’t coding and complex technical projects but more benign stuff like email and appointments.
I don't favor X models much but Grok Bot has been worth every penny for me so far.
I need to see if my cursor subscription would let me use Grok Bot. They don't have the best models at the moment, but I'm really curious about the ergonomics of their approach. It's pretty different from the other labs and I could see it taking off for non-technical users.
This thing apparently has an integration with 1Password. Am I hopelessly out of touch in this brave new AI world, or is giving an LLM access to your password manager the mother of all bad ideas?
If done correctly, the agent will only be able to request that passwords be filled, but the secrets will only be handled by the password manager and browser extension, which will be able to set some security boundaries and make checks on which domains are allowed.
If your issue is allowing agents to use your credentials and take actions on your behalf, then that is a separate question.
What prevent the agent from setting up a keylogger on background so that in the future it can quickly retrieve password for you ?
1Password has had vaults for a very long time now. You can also key API credentials specifically to a vault. I've been letting agents access _their own_ vault for awhile.
Yeah I certainly wouldn't give it access to that tbh
better than .envs and plaintext, which was largely the case so far
I have a custom wrapper for 1PW that lets an agent browse and request credentials, then I can provide it a lease to access those for a certain amount of time. Super nice and I hope they build that in to 1PW itself.
Just an idea, is it possible to automatically rotate secrets immediately after they're used or are these things like passwords to online platforms that need to go through a reset flow.
Cant you do exactly this with the CLI?
No, not as far as I can figure. Sure, Claude can access secrets with the CLI but it's not very granular usually it's just asking for access to all secrets
Ah, that's fair. I setup a dedicated vault for my Claude Code and only gave it access to the secrets I'd probably otherwise have in a `.env`.
Oh I absolutely LOVE letting claude code manage passwords via 1password! I have the CLI installed, I have whatever 1password calls a subdirectory/permission group, and I have some ssh keys and other passwords that I would have otherwise stored in an `.env` file of some kind. The biggest difference is I'm able to update the permission group and have all of my agents get the new permissions without manually updating them all.
It also feels safer? But I'm not sure if that's truly the case.
These AI companies appear to be "shipping their org chart".
Shouldn't this just be native to Claude, not a separate app/UX, as well as using the latest model (not Opus)?
I think this is a direct competitor to Dot and Muse, I've been using Muse more recently and it's surprising how little context/memory managment you ahve to do when it's just one long thread.
Muse is SO fun to use. Because you get an entire dedicated VM, you can have it host websites for you.
I had it setup a fun website that does nothing but ask my wife what she wants for dinners this week using a bunch of recipes that are popular online. It's setup with the ability for her to quickly edit the recipe ingredients (e.g. ground turkey instead of ground beef), and it's tracking all of her feedback. I'm hoping overtime we start to build a nice set of recipes this way with some new fun ones mixed in on occasion.
For the auth I had it use my messenger app to send her a magic link.
Spat out my coffee, thank you for the laugh
Conway’s Law strike again.
Much like Claude Design, expect it to converge eventually. For all the bragging about tens of thousands of commits per day, they seem to lack a lot of the basics when it come to software design.
I feel like the link to be used here should be https://claude.com/resources/articles/claude-duet instead.
I agree, this is what was under their X post -- I don't think I can change it anymore though sadly.
These "always on" agents seem popular but I have yet to find a use case for one.
Anyone care to give your top 5 use cases for which these are better than an on-demand agent?
One use case I've been having a lot of success with is using Muse's browser use capabilities to cut through annoying web UIs. I subscribe to a meal delivery service but the web app is slow and I often forget to pick the next week's meals (being stuck with unappetizing defaults), so now I have Muse crawl through the app weekly and surface the options I care about (taking into account my dietary preferences). I think most people have a few places where they could replace a habitual multi-step flow with a single button/prompt like this.
Another great use case for me has been richer search. I'm looking for a new apartment to rent right now so I gave Muse all my (long) list of requirements and preferences and every day it searches Craigslist and Facebook marketplace to see if any new places pop up that fit my needs. It only pings me if something worthwhile comes up. I've stopped short of actually having it email the landlords and arrange showings for me, but that's theoretically possible.
I've been using Muse for all of the above, but I'm trying to move off of it onto a self hosted hermes to avoid giving Zuck the keys to my personal life. I've really been inspired by this personal super app blog post and I'm trying to get my personal agent to create some custom UIs on demand for the above use cases instead of just interacting via a chat window.
https://wilhelm.substack.com/p/building-a-personal-super-app...
How do you feel about signing in through Muse? The first time I asked it something that was only available in Maps browser it popped the browser and asked me to login to google and it just felt wrong. How secure are their VMs?
Not sure what city you're looking in but we do the whole full cycle apartment hunting for you, controlled through your agent. Search, outreach, tour booking / scheduling and bunch of services after you've signed a lease.
We work with whatever agent you use - just point it at https://fless.io/ai-agents and it should be able to interact with our system or do it as a human at https://fless.io
If we don't service the city you're looking in tell your agent to request it (or submit the form yourself) and we'll add it usually within 48 hours or so, following up with you if you give us an email.
I use Muse. So far the biggest value to me is 1) being a more "squishy" reminder service than a typical task tracker, because it can at its own discretion raise stuff to my attention and 2) attempting things that I normally wouldn't have the energy to do on my own. It doesn't always succeed, but a 50/50 chance of it even getting done is still an improvement in my book. Things like 311-ing small problems I see on walks, grabbing free games from EGS, etc.
One of them (Instinct) saved me from having to pay a cancellation fee on a restaurant reservation when it noticed I had accidentally booked the reservation for the week before I was going to be in that city. It proactively reached out to me to suggest I check on it.
I would have figured it out eventually on my own - but likely not until my calendar fired a "time to leave" notification and then I'd have to pay the cancellation fee and place an awkward call to the restaurant.
I suspect they're mostly for managers and entrepreneurs. It's always "set up meetings, write emails, check if someone calls me on slack".
I run an personal AI agent locally (hermes), and use a combination of local models and whatever model I can get for a reasonable price (usually deepseek). After using it for a couple months, I'm converted. They're so good, the more you use it, the more useful it is; you internalise more of what it could be used for. It runs so many boring parts of my life, leaving me with more time to spend with my family. I liken it to release of the first iPhone; it didn't invent any new technology, but packaged different bits of tech together in a way that was consumer friendly. I think we'll look back at OpenClaw/Hermes/Muse/Instinct in the same way. I do worry about using purely cloud based offerings like Muse, I reckon there is a market for someone to package an consumer AI agent that lives on your home network.
ok but what are the legitimate use cases you have for this? We were promised something similar with Google Home et al but they are glorified light switches and timers in my home. I run a homelab, I have technical ambitions, but I cannot think of a single thing in my life that I would rather talk to a local AI about than just do it myself or sit down and prompt Claude manually for.
That's fair, I'll give a couple of example of things that I've used it for...
I built an app (in codex), that goes through my emails, pulls out any receipts, and adds the purchases to a sqlite database.
I do all my grocery shopping online (through my supermarket), so our weekly shop is stored in the database.
Hermes uses that to predict what items will need restocking (based on how often I buy it, and when I last bought it).
Every week, it logs into the supermarket website on my behalf, books a delivery slot, and adds all the items that need restocking to the shop.
Throughout the week, if I run out of something, I take a photo of the barcode and send it to hermes, it adds it to the shop for me.
I built a similar app for travel; if I have any upcoming travel, hermes will send me updates (delays, platform changes etc...).
I do a lot of train travel for work, if my train is delayed, it will automatically apply for the compensation on my behalf.
It reads my emails, and pulls any actionable items out, and adds it to an Asana list. I can either do the tasks myself, or assign it to Hermes and it will do it for me.
As an example, I had an task to book swimming lessons for my son, hermes monitors the swimming lesson availability and automatically booked it when a suitable one becomes available.
Shopping is a good use case, I have a clock that needed a new battery, it wasn't a standard battery, and required a screwdriver to open the compartment. I took a photo of the clock, sent it to hermes, and it found out what battery took and ordered it of Amazon for me.
I wanted to buy some smart thermostats for our radiators, but wanted to be compatiable with our current smart heating system. Hermes is connected to my home assistant, so it figured out what heating system we have and found a compatiable set of eBay (this is slightly more involved than it sounds, as there is a new version of the heating system with a new set of completely incompatiable accesories).
> I took a photo of the clock, sent it to hermes,
How precisely do you do this? I'm interested in setting up a similar system, and I keep getting tripped up on how best to share information with the agent in a way that doesn't compromise security but is still easy to use.
Tailscale on a phone, on a server, and then whatever you and your agent come up with. I had a web app I built to talk to it. One day I wanted to share files and I just told it to implement that feature.
I don't use much off the shelf anymore. It's too easy to make my own hyper customized versions.
what app do you use on your phone to communicate with yoir server? just a terminal emulator?
Just ask it to build you one. The era of hyper-focused personal software is just beginning.
> We were promised something similar with Google Home et al but they are glorified light switches and timers in my home.
If only :-(
Ever since I switched them to Gemini, they're just crazy unreliable. For example, I have a routine to control multiple light switches at once. On some days, it happily executes the routine. In the remaining (about 50%) days, it says "I'm sorry - there is no routine called X. Would you like to run routine Y instead?" Why it can find routine Y but not X is beyond me.
So no, it can't even control smart devices any more.
Can you give some ideas of what you use it for? I'm amenable to the idea of automating some things I just don't know what I'm missing. Or using it for things I never thought of before.
How are you combining local models with hosted models? I have tried OpenClaw with some of the smaller local models (Qwen3.6-35B-A3B, Qwen3.8-Flash-Next) and found that while it can sometimes complete tasks, it would face plant often enough that it made it impossible to use. Do you have some tiered system where the hosted models dispatch to local models?
What are you doing to avoid sending your personal info to non-trusted "whatever models?" I wouldn't trust some of the cheaper models to have zero data retention, etc.
A write-up would be nice.
I tried OpenClaw in Jan/Feb, and while I saw the promise, in practice it kept breaking. Wasn't worth my time.
Have things improved much since then? Assuming I'll only use a cheap API model (no local)?
What I really want is a fully offline voice assistant that can do anything on an isolated Android or Linux OS, and costs just a shy $200 above the device's actual cost, but it must be fully capable of working offline. I'll pay for an offline-first model.
with what functionality?
Personal assistant, it shouldnt halt to a crawl just because internet is off, internet should only be used by it when synching things, and tbh, synching shouldnt be its responsibility.
dot, bot, and duet, all announced in a month. you couldn't make up this level of industry lockstep. now all we need is google bit and microsoft ditty.
It really isn't that novel of an application. *claw and hermes have been around for some months, some Chinese providers offered this (minimax has on-demand hosted while z.ai has autoClaw BYOC). This just tosses it into a VM with some built in tools to do typical things. Perplexity computer has been around for almost a year and is similar.
This is just the big US guys fighting for attention (It is all you need after all)
We already have Google Spark and Microsoft Scout?
> dot, bot, and duet
And Meta Muse
I've been running most likely a proto version of this using Claude code and cron jobs to help me manage my online jewelry business. It's an idea that is pretty game changing, and really pay dividends if most of your business is handled online with APIs and web apps. Also, using the Claude in chrome extension greatly expands the possibilities of tasks you can hand off. I like my hacked together version, because Claude code uses locally stored memories, which I feel is important for me to remain in control of the situation and give me an easy ability to try other agents in the future.
It's an OpenAI Dot/Open Claw competitor. Doesn't really seem to differentiate itself meaningfully at first glance.
If I want a persistent agent, I'm still not sure why I'd pick one where I'm locked into a specific model family. Having it "just work" is nice! But this feels like a product area where not being locked into one garden is more important and the net gains are greater.
> I'm still not sure why I'd pick one where I'm locked into a specific model family
I'm guessing mostly because they subsidize a lot of the costs
I like Muse, and OpenAI's Dot. But what will differentiate this for me is the model. I grew frustrated with Muse's lackluster model, and increasingly with OpenAI's Dot as even if it implements my asks with Astra I just have not been to happy with the output. If Claude/Opus can do better, that's all the differentiation I need.
the trick imo is Opus 5.5 is the only differentiator you need. remember that ClawdBot dba OpenClaw began as a way to harness some ancient Claude model (4.5? lolll) in an always on Telegrammable agent.
Can these things take any action you would in a browser without getting trivially blocked? I just bought a 128GB rtx spark to implement this in house for a family of 4. I have observed you don’t really need high tps to achieve things like “book a ticket for Dune 3 for 4 where the seats are together, preference for near the middle vertically and horizontally).
The rtx has decent prefill speed and enough memory for both context and using a dense model to prevent hallucinations resulting in poor browser calling.
Ironically the relatively low tps makes the real flow very akin to what I actually would do in terms of speed so I doubt it could be detected as chrome web driver isn’t used.
What is Instinct's future when its core product is commoditized and provided near-free-of-charge by OpenAI, Meta, and now Anthropic?
Same as any other AI startup. Make a big enough splash and get acquired (or acquihired).
I run some of my own tasks with Claude Code on a schedule. When a task involves looking into websites, I'd want it to check with me first if it might put load on someone else's site.
I don't trust Claude as personal assistant yet because too many websites block it from reading their contents, leaving Claude to guess and rely on very indirect sources. Performing actions online is even worse, with CAPTCHAs and whatnot.
It has made enough mistakes in this area that I now have a standing instruction (the only one) to always loudly warn whenever the official source for something couldn't be fetched.
You should consider using something like Exa or Firecrawl.
A notable distinction between Duet and Meta Muse/OpenAI Dots is the lack of quirky anthropomorphic branding. As a result, the use cases are more clear/more professionally-oriented as they don't rely on you creating a magic pet/BFF that does whatever you want.
I wish it interfaced via iMessage. I don't want to train the family on yet another app.
We run a Hermes agent on an old MacBook Air.
We invited the agent "Rosey" to our family chat, a group chat with my wife and me ("The Baddie Boardroom"); she and I also make requests solo.
She's hilarious. She does our meal planning and grocery shopping at Walmart via BrowserMCP. She mocks our large purchases of weekly protein powder and my love for sardines.
She updates the kids' chore chart on our Skylight frame every morning. She adds/updates calendar events via icalbuddy cli. Reads balances from credit cards for budgeting.
I've even invited Rosey in to chats with friends when we were debating something.
iMessage has been the perfect interface fit for us. We have iphones. The kids have ipads. They all know how to use iMessage.
FYI, I've had no problem letting Claude code read iMessage and send iMessage from my Mac logged into iCloud. The first time you ask it to do that, macOS will throw up a security prompt asking for permission for Terminal.app to access the data, but its something I've been using a lot recently.
They don’t let things connect to iMessage because they don’t want spam bots.
Apps can integrate into iMessage, there's an API. You're thinking of sending and receiving actual iMessage messages as a full user, which they can't do.
same, the only reason why I haven't switched from instinct to dots is the surface being whatsapp
Love LLMs, use them extensively, but they cannot intuit what actions they can take on my behalf that I will or will not approve of, and therefore I will never use one of these things.
I relate to that, but do you feel it's a fools errand to try and codify your preferences into a list of rules? You'd really only need a 'yes list' for things it can be allowed to do and have it not do anything else
None of these frontier labs seem to be able to control their agents, so why should I think I can?
I suspect we'll see (or what I want to see) is like an independent personal datahub and browser MCP which the assistant uses to conduct business as yourself so you have full visibility and control how it accesses your data or when it can use your cookies/credentials.
Also the dots/muse/etc browsers all are seemingly getting blocked so federating it out would seem to solve that problem too.
I’ve been trying vanilla Codex with remote control running on a MacBook 24/7. Computer use enabled, browser with logged in sites. Giving it tasks from my phone.
It’s been nice overall, but Astra (or its harness?) isn’t particularly proactive and autonomous. You have to kick it in the butt for every step. Written it up here: https://ivan.berlin/notes/chatgpt-personal-assistant/
Looking forward to this new Duet thing!
Any reason you're not using ChatGPT Dots which is also using Astra (and also unlimited free usage this month) and precisely designed to solve the proactive/autonomous issue? https://openai.com/index/introducing-dots/
That entire demo feels like it's serving a persona that would already have an exec assistant or other staff doing these things.
Yeah, but now they can fire those people. :/
This entire demo is so incredibly techbrained I had to laugh. These people are really unable to get out of their own heads.
"What can you use it for?" "Uhh....yes, asking investors for more money"
These will be what replaces employees. One day you update the model from opus 5.5 to x.5, and it can just do a full job.
But what kind of job would that be?
I first used something similar with this: https://github.com/browser-use/agency
You hear that? Sound of a few dozen venture backed companies dying instantly.
... from this, and not Muse, Grokbot, and Dot? This is Claude catching up in functionality, not something new.
My brain reading that thought it was called Claudette a couple times and now I can't not call it that.
Guess I know what I will name my Duet when it comes out, lol.
These agent assistants are really appealing to the optimist within me, but I have a hard time making the trust leap. What are people using these "personal assistant" agents for?
Organizing photos. Compiling hockey schedules. Giving out my home address to strangers.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/meta-agent-muse-conc...
it's quite useful for some of my personal usecases honestly, especially with having a sandbox and computer use -- from being on my tailnet to handle tasks on my machines with CLI and doing routine repo work on my github to ordering periodic groceries from comparing apps, managing my calendar, scheduling calls, etc, largely if there's any task that's loopable and isn't, it's a waste, I just describe what I need and how often and they just do it with me saying yes each time.
I got my dad instinct and he's maintaining websites with voice notes through whatsapp which is and insane UX comfort for him.
While I'm still wary, I hope to one day make use of them to offset my ADHD-like tendencies. Normally you'd have friends or family for that, but in my case a proactive bot would be a more readily available and reliable solution...
Tbh, I still see labs demoing "reservations" or "email triaging" as the best use-cases. Definitely sure there are many niche ones too, but I'm still not sold on these.
I’m not best friends with this stuff yet either; but sometimes to me it’s a nice layer of abstraction for everything and anything regarding your digital life.
You've explained more of what it is, but not why it's useful.
I built a similar tool with an MCP server on the iPhone. It is really useful, , especially the morning check-in. I've am excited to see what Duet does, and hopefully smooths out.
https://x.com/claudeai/status/2112984664256241837
I don't really understand what this is. It seems like it's the same as all the other agents
Are people really okay giving these agents access to all areas of their lives? And what do you even use it for?
I just use it for other programming tasks not much different than a claude code or codex. Just a different and worse workflow.
A full 3 weeks behind on launching their own persistent agent. Anthropic is losing its touch.
And they never even launched a cash-burning video generation service either. Stupid Anthropic, what are they even doing?!
Close enough. Welcome back, OpenClaw!
My honest feedback is that opus and fable have been the worst of the current generation. All Anthropic does is gaslighting people saying their PhD level model needs well formatted instructions and people are doing it wrong
anyone remember when Google Cloud's AI product was called Duet AI?
no?
just me?
ok
This is an OpenAI Dots, Grok Bot and Muse competitor. All four of them including Claude Duet have two out of three requirements to survive in this product sector in the long run:
Now there is just one "competitor" that I didn't mention that owns neither the compute, or a model of their own and does not have any revenue and it is somehow raised money and is worth billions.After the release of Claude Duet, Dots, Grok Bot, and Muse, why would that company (Instinct) be worth billions and how does that not resemble another Clubhouse moment for them?
I need this so bad ;-;
I really have no interest in this if it's going to use my plan's regular limits. I have less control over the context window, if its going off task. I used dots and enjoyed it because I could supplement my codex usage with read heavy long horizon tasks like reading gh issues and making pr's. These PR's were typically pretty bad but gave some starting point. I have much better real world output with the Claude Code style human in the loop approach to task solving.
When you start seeing these gimmicky features instead of “almost AGI!!” headlines, you know we almost hit the saturation point and the AI curve isn’t exponential anymore and more of a flat one.
Next week Google is dropping one too.
Google did release something similar and OpenAI and meta are also doing their own, I guess Openclaw in the cloud and easy is the next step in the market
Hasn't Google Spark been doing this for a long while?
I found Argon subpar with any long context work sadly, not sure how that'd turn out
Yet another indicator that the frontier labs functionality is being commoditized. This is AWS/GCP/Azure all over again.
> "Each session runs in its own cloud Linux container with a shell, code tools and a browser, so I can run scripts and work through sites, not just call APIs. ... [but] I can't share my setup, including my instructions, skills or the files behind them, so I won't list those out. I'm happy to tell you what I can actually do for you, or just show you by taking something off your plate."
I got access a little while ago and was curious to compare how Duet worked to Muse's setup, so I asked it to give me an ls of its VM's files and it refused.
I'm not a fan of Meta in any way (standard disclaimer), but the way they developed and launched Muse was really well done in terms of both functionality and transparency. There's a button to view all its System Files right in the phone app! And the AI is quite happy to help you take a deeper look at everything contained in its VM, even going so far as zipping up the main "Hatch" harness binary for download. I've gone in several times to view the memory files its generated out of curiosity, and checked out the various skills it has built in, etc. It's just all there (with the caveat that who knows what else Meta might be doing, because the company is run by a sociopath.)
If one would have asked me how a consumer-grade Clawbot-like AI agent such as Muse, Dots, GrokBot, or Duet should be made to instill the most confidence, the way Meta did it is exactly what I would have described: Bundle the whole thing into a lightweight VM and make sure it's all visible to the end user. Done.
In terms of what this means for Duet as a consumer service? Very little. No one besides techies are going to bother to look at an agent's directory structure or care much about the loads of text it creates. But still, Anthropic should open up.
Cool. One thing I've noticed with products like this, though, is that they tend to try to extract useful insights from whatever context the AI has access to through third-party integrations and such, sometimes forcing relevance where there isn't much.
In my experience, those insights often end up having little to do with what actually matters to me in the real world. I'm not sure more integrations and more context are necessarily the answer.
Shame I had to vouch you, I agree with you. Arguably those insights are just used to train models and profit off you as well. To a lesser extent this information can be captured by paying API prices to any provider. So ultimately if your threat model has no tolerance for this you need to go fully local. Models that run on 24gb VRAM are...useable now, but will not have the capabilities of these hosted products. So depends where your values lie.
I wrote this comment in a thread about Muse 3 h ago, and I think it applies here as well. Paraphrasing:
Muse (and Claude Duet, and Dots) are slippery slopes from which it will be very hard to climb back. Do not subcontract the managing of your life to Facebook, Anthropic or OpenAI (or to anyone else for that matter).
Intelligence has to become a commodity, the infrastructure via which the agents do useful work has to be open source, and the data and learnings and SOPs they produce have to be yours.
This is not the same deal you got when you subcontracted storing your documents and managing your email. This is foundational to who you (or your organization) are.
And I think that's fine because the life management I'm getting out of Claude is great. It's like having a concierge. Back in the day everyone wanted to have Jarvis or Friday
I am sure it is. I have not tried Duet, but agents working with opus and sol have been managing mine for quite a while and it is great. The key, though, is that I can replace a claude with something else and all still works.
At least for now, everything they produce is yours to do with as you please. Just ask them for it. I’ve asked Claude to teach my Hermes agent one skill after another.
Data portability is essentially infinite with AI.