I like watching the other half of the bus while riding these. It's a cool effect, seeing the whole "room" oscillate through the "doorway", while I feel like I'm standing still.
Edit: The article has a video of this effect near the bottom.
I agree that it looks impressive (you just have to catch a time where the train is mostly empty to be able to see end to end), but 15 cars is a bit exaggerated. The U-Bahn trains have 6 cars, the current S-Bahn EMUs have 4 cars (up to three of them can be coupled, but you can't pass from one unit to the next). But the new S-Bahn trains scheduled to be delivered from the end of 2028 will be 200 meters long and have 13 cars (Siemens is apparently not superstitious) where you can indeed walk (and look) from one end to the other: https://press.siemens.com/global/en/pressrelease/germanys-mo...
One silver lining to the bus being packed is standing with one foot on either side of the articulation pivot. Feeling your stance change under you while you're standing still is neat.
When I got to where they explained the benefits of having the engine at the very back and the instability of having the back part push the front, I tried to guess how they solved it. I guessed a fancy drive shaft with universal joints so the engine in the back half could drive wheels in the front half.
I guessed wrong. I still like my idea, but their solution is simpler and probably more efficient and more durable too.
Why is it that this and similar ad-filled pages constantly crash/reload? On mobile safari in reader mode, if it helps. I would have expected reader mode to be more stable since it removes a bunch of junk, but sadly no.
The article seemed cool but I was only able to read 20 seconds at a time between crashes.
Boarding times though? I agree of course about the cool factor and I was sure to ride one when visiting London, but afaik the slower (dis)embarking times are why double-decked trains are primarily used on intercity trains and not on commuter/local trains or light rail (metro etc.). Typical busses stopping every two minutes are probably similar
Edit: wait, I know one in Germany as well. It's expensive but between Frankfurt airport and another major city, there is a rail line but somehow the bus is significantly faster and they're using double deckers. The front row at the top was, n=3, always free for me (all four seats) so you get a quite unique experience, at least so far as my bus experiences in mainland western Europe go :)
Often true. OTOH, the reduced footprint (vs. either 1 articulated or 2 normal busses) can speeds things up, especially on cramped and congested city streets. And if you're getting near gridlock-level congestion, the length of the articulated busses can be like dumping gravel into your system's gearbox.
The goal of public transportation is to move people fast around the city. Not to have the driver sell the tickets, that’s what the ticket machine is for (both on stations and on board). Anybody using public transportation daily probably has a monthly ticket anyway. And not to provide tourist information.
People want to get to work on time after all. Entering and leaving the tram or bus through all door is a simple way to improve public transports reliability.
Double deckers I’ve seen have just one narrow staircase. You can’t have people go up and down at the same time. Through a door you can move some people in and out at the same time, however it’s rude, but since it’s a door and not a lengthy corridor, you can easily have a group of people go out, let new passengers in, and get in again.
can't they just widen the staricase to match the space in the aisle.
Aisles in city buses tend to be very narrow too making ppl bunch up near the driver if one person is standing in aisle in a awkward way. Ppl also bunch up near the driver because if someone has stop coming up they dont want to traverse all the way to the back and then travese out to the door. Some ppl are also anxious about get 'stuck' in middle and missing their stop.
How about articulated double-decker buses? The one does not need to exclude the other after all. It'd need a large harmonica to deal with hills and bumps or it could have separated top floors with sloping roofs.
> “The articulated bus is a common sight everywhere”
Certainly not in London where they were famously banned in 2009.
Now days they’re uncommon throughout the UK, with UK cities having a preference for double-deckers. You do see them in use as shuttles at some UK airports, though.
In Chicago the drivers and passengers just yell at you to move to the back. I've never seen a bus not get to capacity due to poor utilization. Trains, it does happen and those you can enter anywhere. There's no staff there to call out the inconsiderate.
Why were they banned? They're used in the Netherlands which is rife with small bendy streets so if that was the argument it seems to be somewhat spurious.
They sucked basically. A bendy bus takes up twice as much space as a double decker while being half as fun to ride on. Even with double deckers many bus stops operate beyond capacity with multiple buses in contention at a stop, double deckers allow 3 buses to load simultaneously allowing six busloads of people to board in a space that would only allow for 1 bendy bus, essentially tripling the capacity.
They also cause problems for other road users such as cyclists.
Bendy buses work well if your city has wide straight roads. London's roads are neither.
no, not really. occasionally the power pickup thingy would get detached from the overhead wires, but the driver had a big pole to hook them up again.
the trolleys were basically replacements for trams, which needed a lot of street furniture in the form of rails, points, etc. which caused problems for the increasing use of cars. but i always liked them (trolleys).
There were some fatalities that got a lot of attention in the media. There was also a problem with fare evasion. Some were catching fire as well. A perfect storm of issues.
In this case it was the right thing. Double deckers are better.
I didn't know until now that they're only common in Britain. I guess when travelling you don't notice things like "there aren't many double decker buses".
Also don't forget changing anything is a great opportunity for grift and politicking. Test. Evaluate. Plan. Consult. Pilot. Source. Phase out. Phase in. Maintain. A lot of public money to distribute! A lot of project credit-taking and future-progress-aligning to be image-jacked!
The right-wing media at the time latched onto them as the cause of all of society's problems, and Boris Johnson promised to get rid of them if he was elected mayor.
In addition to the other reply's issues, they replaced the dirty and stinking but British-made old Routemaster buses, they were much more accessible to the disabled and babies (pushchairs), they were used successfully elsewhere in Europe, and they use more road space which could otherwise contain an important person's car.
I think they're still used in cities outside London, but that's OK since Daily Telegraph journalists never go there.
double length bus has to be one of dumbest ideas i've ever seen. jams up a whole block every time it tries to turn. usually at least half empty and not helping anything. double decker. brits figured it out already.
Yeah, double deckers don't work everywhere. Overhead infrastructure isn't always conducive. And I rode one of these for years (it could have been the very bus in the first picture) and they were often full on the suburban runs.
I like watching the other half of the bus while riding these. It's a cool effect, seeing the whole "room" oscillate through the "doorway", while I feel like I'm standing still.
Edit: The article has a video of this effect near the bottom.
The trains around Munich, Germany were fantastic for that effect. 15+ cars long with wide, open pivots.
Yep I find the Elizabeth Line in London has this effect too.
I find it a bit freaky to be honest but you do get used to it.
I agree that it looks impressive (you just have to catch a time where the train is mostly empty to be able to see end to end), but 15 cars is a bit exaggerated. The U-Bahn trains have 6 cars, the current S-Bahn EMUs have 4 cars (up to three of them can be coupled, but you can't pass from one unit to the next). But the new S-Bahn trains scheduled to be delivered from the end of 2028 will be 200 meters long and have 13 cars (Siemens is apparently not superstitious) where you can indeed walk (and look) from one end to the other: https://press.siemens.com/global/en/pressrelease/germanys-mo...
Most metros are like this no? Not much seating, just articulated open tubes(-in-tubes)
Only if the trains are less than about 25 years old. Before that there were only narrow walkways between carriages.
The best part is sitting in the swivel part and having the whole bus bend around you.
My college years did not include all that many hangovers, but I distinctly remember not enjoying this effect one morning.
One silver lining to the bus being packed is standing with one foot on either side of the articulation pivot. Feeling your stance change under you while you're standing still is neat.
[dead]
Just 2 days ago: one of these buses had an accident that left the front part twisted 180 degrees in relation to the rear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbaRmGKzPY
The Munich bus-trailer in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IUE-yA8R1A
When I got to where they explained the benefits of having the engine at the very back and the instability of having the back part push the front, I tried to guess how they solved it. I guessed a fancy drive shaft with universal joints so the engine in the back half could drive wheels in the front half.
I guessed wrong. I still like my idea, but their solution is simpler and probably more efficient and more durable too.
A more modern solution would be to use electric motors on multiple axles, the power coming from a generator or battery.
The bus version of an EMU train
I wonder how much extra complexity a driveshaft crossing the articulation joint would introduce
This article's byline features one of the most magnificent cases of nominative determinism I've ever seen. I wonder if it's a nom de plume.
Name chosen on gender change
https://medium.com/@MissMercedes/the-birth-of-mercedes-cb41d...
Omg! My whole life I thought that the rear engine articulated buses transferred the torque to the middle axle (the rear axle of the front “bus”)!
Same here :) I always assumed the engine was just placed at the back for packaging reasons and somehow drove the middle axle
Why is it that this and similar ad-filled pages constantly crash/reload? On mobile safari in reader mode, if it helps. I would have expected reader mode to be more stable since it removes a bunch of junk, but sadly no.
The article seemed cool but I was only able to read 20 seconds at a time between crashes.
Call me a fossil, but double-decker busses just seem so much cooler. Without all the added engineering complexity, costs, and footprint.
Boarding times though? I agree of course about the cool factor and I was sure to ride one when visiting London, but afaik the slower (dis)embarking times are why double-decked trains are primarily used on intercity trains and not on commuter/local trains or light rail (metro etc.). Typical busses stopping every two minutes are probably similar
Edit: wait, I know one in Germany as well. It's expensive but between Frankfurt airport and another major city, there is a rail line but somehow the bus is significantly faster and they're using double deckers. The front row at the top was, n=3, always free for me (all four seats) so you get a quite unique experience, at least so far as my bus experiences in mainland western Europe go :)
> Boarding times though?
Often true. OTOH, the reduced footprint (vs. either 1 articulated or 2 normal busses) can speeds things up, especially on cramped and congested city streets. And if you're getting near gridlock-level congestion, the length of the articulated busses can be like dumping gravel into your system's gearbox.
True. While I love our articulated buses in Kraków, if one of these stops mid-turn on an intersection, it blocks 3 out of 4 movement directions.
These issues are solved with dedicated bus lanes, which are desirable even for double deckers.
> Boarding times though?
cant they just put another entry door?
You can, but it's easier to evade fares. The driver can enforce fares better at the door near them.
My local transit agency just stopped allowing rear door boarding, and that was one of the main reasons: https://waypointblog.com/capmetro-is-ending-rear-door-boardi...
The goal of public transportation is to move people fast around the city. Not to have the driver sell the tickets, that’s what the ticket machine is for (both on stations and on board). Anybody using public transportation daily probably has a monthly ticket anyway. And not to provide tourist information.
People want to get to work on time after all. Entering and leaving the tram or bus through all door is a simple way to improve public transports reliability.
maybe i dont understand how articulated bus makes boarding faster. If anything it makes it slower compared to double decker .
Double deckers I’ve seen have just one narrow staircase. You can’t have people go up and down at the same time. Through a door you can move some people in and out at the same time, however it’s rude, but since it’s a door and not a lengthy corridor, you can easily have a group of people go out, let new passengers in, and get in again.
can't they just widen the staricase to match the space in the aisle. Aisles in city buses tend to be very narrow too making ppl bunch up near the driver if one person is standing in aisle in a awkward way. Ppl also bunch up near the driver because if someone has stop coming up they dont want to traverse all the way to the back and then travese out to the door. Some ppl are also anxious about get 'stuck' in middle and missing their stop.
Because they're longer, you can fit more doors on the side. If you allow all-door boarding, it's faster.
The original designs had boarding at the back. Don't even have to stop people can just leap on.
You have different footprint issues. And a lot of cities seem to have been doing ok with the engineering bit for what, 60 years now?
Double-deckers are cool, I’ll grant you that. And a very nice way to visit a city. But they are far, far less efficient in terms of capacity.
How about articulated double-decker buses? The one does not need to exclude the other after all. It'd need a large harmonica to deal with hills and bumps or it could have separated top floors with sloping roofs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplan_Jumbocruiser
> need a large harmonica to deal
I'd guess you mean "large accordion". Either way, the size & complexity of that joint section may be why the idea never went anywhere.
How about double-articulated double-deckers?
Now I want an articulated double decker trolley bus with an articulated double decker trailer.
I relate more to the inarticulate bus
well spoken are its wheels
Truly a hub for circular reasoning
Yes! And. Please bear with me:
SONG OF INDRA
Thus indeed, thus is my mind : kine and horses will I win. Have I not drunk of the Soma ?
Like the roaring winds the draughts of Soma have roused me up. Have I not drunk of the Soma ?
The draughts have roused me up, as swift horses a chariot. Have I not drunk of the Soma ?
The hymn has drawn nigh to me, as a lowing cow to her dear calf. Have I not drunk of the Soma ?
As a carpenter a seat for the chariot, round my heart I bend the hymn. Have I not drunk of the Soma ?
Haha, had to. This is such an absurdly beautiful translation of a Vedic hymn by Thomas. Source: page 50: https://archive.org/cors/vedichymns00unse/vedichymns00unse.p...
> “The articulated bus is a common sight everywhere”
Certainly not in London where they were famously banned in 2009.
Now days they’re uncommon throughout the UK, with UK cities having a preference for double-deckers. You do see them in use as shuttles at some UK airports, though.
In Chicago the drivers and passengers just yell at you to move to the back. I've never seen a bus not get to capacity due to poor utilization. Trains, it does happen and those you can enter anywhere. There's no staff there to call out the inconsiderate.
Why were they banned? They're used in the Netherlands which is rife with small bendy streets so if that was the argument it seems to be somewhat spurious.
They sucked basically. A bendy bus takes up twice as much space as a double decker while being half as fun to ride on. Even with double deckers many bus stops operate beyond capacity with multiple buses in contention at a stop, double deckers allow 3 buses to load simultaneously allowing six busloads of people to board in a space that would only allow for 1 bendy bus, essentially tripling the capacity.
They also cause problems for other road users such as cyclists.
Bendy buses work well if your city has wide straight roads. London's roads are neither.
On the other hand if you have trolleybuses (like in my city) the double-deckers are a problem and articulated buses aren't.
in the 1960s, the UK had lots of double-deck trolley buses with few problems - I used to ride them to school.
Aren't the hanging lines a problem with double-deckers?
no, not really. occasionally the power pickup thingy would get detached from the overhead wires, but the driver had a big pole to hook them up again.
the trolleys were basically replacements for trams, which needed a lot of street furniture in the form of rails, points, etc. which caused problems for the increasing use of cars. but i always liked them (trolleys).
Not if you plan for double-deckers and put the lines higher up. And then single-deckers need a longer pickup pole.
There were some fatalities that got a lot of attention in the media. There was also a problem with fare evasion. Some were catching fire as well. A perfect storm of issues.
The British press really never misses a chance to do the wrong thing huh.
In this case it was the right thing. Double deckers are better.
I didn't know until now that they're only common in Britain. I guess when travelling you don't notice things like "there aren't many double decker buses".
Also don't forget changing anything is a great opportunity for grift and politicking. Test. Evaluate. Plan. Consult. Pilot. Source. Phase out. Phase in. Maintain. A lot of public money to distribute! A lot of project credit-taking and future-progress-aligning to be image-jacked!
So we should never change anything?
So we should just cede management to the AI and get about solely in personal transport that is tracked and logged and authorized at every turn?
The right-wing media at the time latched onto them as the cause of all of society's problems, and Boris Johnson promised to get rid of them if he was elected mayor.
In addition to the other reply's issues, they replaced the dirty and stinking but British-made old Routemaster buses, they were much more accessible to the disabled and babies (pushchairs), they were used successfully elsewhere in Europe, and they use more road space which could otherwise contain an important person's car.
I think they're still used in cities outside London, but that's OK since Daily Telegraph journalists never go there.
Any public transport initiative that in any way inconveniences a car driver gets hate in the UK
double length bus has to be one of dumbest ideas i've ever seen. jams up a whole block every time it tries to turn. usually at least half empty and not helping anything. double decker. brits figured it out already.
Yeah, double deckers don't work everywhere. Overhead infrastructure isn't always conducive. And I rode one of these for years (it could have been the very bus in the first picture) and they were often full on the suburban runs.
Unfuckingreadable.
you are absokutely right