I'll say they definitely need to let people disable/offload the model, but if you haven't tried the new Siri, it's been great. Obviously it's not a state of the art LLM, but it's good enough, and the fact that it can search and take actions on your local data makes it incredibly useful. I definitely use it more on my iPhone where it's slower to get things done the traditional way, but I use it all the time now.
"What was the quote for my insurance claim?" - it'll look through your emails and pull the number with the source email so you can jump right to it.
The other day I asked "when did I arrive and leave Mexico City on my trip at the end of 2024?" and it nailed it based off my flight receipt.
Since learning Spanish I get a lot more Spanish stuff in my feeds, and if I e.g. don't understand a meme I'll just ask "explain the joke here" and it reads the screen and explains it.
You can have an article open in Safari and say "remind me to read this tonight" and it'll make a reminder with the link. Or you can modify reminders - "move my reminder to get groceries to tomorrow at the same time". Yesterday I told it to make me a reminder and it did, but I worded it in a clunky way so I followed it with "reword that to sound more natural" and it did it.
We've been trained for a long time to think Siri can't do anything but I urge you to try it once you're on the new one, it's quite good. And I'm sure I've barely touched all the things it can do. David Pogue published a pretty thorough test other day:
Siri AI is very capable, but *I* should have control over when and whether *I* decide to enable or completely delete it.
I wasn't expecting Apple to force-feed the AI into my mouth with this new Siri release, but turning "Apple Intelligence" into "Siri AI" and removing the opt-out toggle is gross.
(You can't disable all of other fka Apple Intelligence stuff without disabling Siri AI, and you can't disable Siri AI without switching your Siri language to an unsupported region and turning a bunch of stuff off in Content Privacy and Restrictions. On Watch, Siri is front and center of your Suggested Apps carousel --- which they removed Recent Apps to create, an extremely useful feature --- unless you change YOUR ENTIRE WATCH'S REGION to some other unsupported country. None of this is okay.)
Anecdotally, I can do all of the stuff you've listed can be done without Siri AI or "Classic" Siri and get correct answers almost 100% of the time.
As a side note, the Apple Watch changes have completely made Camera Remote unusable for me, a feature I loved.
I don't know why, but I usually can only get Camera Remote to work when I close all of the recent apps on my Apple Watch, even when my watch and phone were the newest ones Apple released. Probably a bug with memory management they're never going to fix. Now, that's not possible, even when I reboot my watch :(
I'm with you. The new Watch update messed a lot of stuff up for me. I have Shazam linked to my Action Button; it's always been flakey but it feels flakier lately. Losing Walkie-Talkie is a big miss too, as my wife and I use that feature often.
I agree that you should have the ability to remove AI features, but that isn't the direction Apple has followed for the past decade or so. There's a lot of stuff in macOS that one should be able to remove, or at least disable, if one isn't interested in living within the Apple ecosystem.
The one that is almost just as fast workflow wise, far more capable, has more features, is developed at a faster pace, and is not forced on the user screwing their privacy.
Our experiences diverge surprisingly far. The new Siri was worse for everything I use it for before I turned it off.
The new Siri can not reliably return the weather (it seems it's prompting on the literal text of the town and asks for a clarification sometimes about whether I am in the United States or United Kingdom), and when I ask "what is the air quality index", the new Siri would sometimes return the definition of AQI. When it returns a value, new Siri would hallucinate an incorrect and fixed value. In the cases where it does work, it's very much slower than the classic "rainbow orb" Siri.
I get that these are things you might do regularly and feel more empowered to use Siri for them... but they're rather banal and could be done with literally a one or two step process previously, especially if you're already using Apple's first-party apps which seem to be a requirement here. In both email cases, Spotlight handles searches like that just fine, and moving a calendar event only requires clicking and dragging.
I'm here wondering why so much extra space is warranted, or how to take it back, not so much how I can find a document with specific text in it or use Siri to do something else that was already very easy.
One task I'm wondering about is for example, asking Siri (on the mac) to analyze a huge dump of arbitrary PDFs that may or may not have non-OCRed text in them, and efficiently reorg and rename them based on what the documents should be. This also seems like a mundane task, but requires a little more than just a standard search and would allow someone to take their entire paper archive of private business documents and create a digital archive without too much risk or work. This is something that all local models I've tried so far really struggle with.
I don't know which Spotlight search you've been using but it certainly has not been consistent and reliable in years.
And I don't find manually searching for emails to find something like flight dates that easy. I've flown to/from Mexico city 6 times in the past couple years, and the airline tends to send like 12 emails pertaining to every trip I book, so asking Siri is much faster.
Not to mention these are tasks I'll be able to do in winter while wearing gloves.
A couple of things I've done with Apple Intelligence on the Mac:
* When I need a prescription refilled, the quickest way is to message my doctor using the patient portal. I created a Shortcut that lets me pick among 5 medications; Apple Intelligence then generates a message with the request to the clipboard which I paste into the message field and send.
* I have a Shortcut that creates a morning summary: Apple Intelligence generates the weather report. I also get what’s on today's calendar and any current or past-due Reminders.
Just scratching the surface here; will flesh these out more later and create some new ones now that I'm running the release version of Golden Gate and not the beta.
> Not sure if I want Siri to know my prescription medication.
Using Shortcuts, a user can use the Cloud model via Private Cloud Compute, the Cloud Pro with "world knowledge, and the on-device model. It occurred to me I probably don't need the Cloud; I switched to the on-device model, which worked fine.
There's no way for Siri or anybody else to know anything about a transaction using Private Cloud Compute:
We designed Private Cloud Compute to make several guarantees about
the way it handles user data [1]:
A user’s device sends data to PCC for the sole, exclusive purpose of
fulfilling the user’s inference request. PCC uses that data only to
perform the operations requested by the user. User data stays on the
PCC nodes that are processing the request only until the response is
returned. PCC deletes the user’s data after fulfilling the request,
and no user data is retained in any form after the response is
returned. User data is never available to Apple — even to staff with
administrative access to the production service or hardware.
> I am sorry no amount of assurances from any company is going to make me reveal my medical information to products from any tech company.
Unlike your insurance provider or credit card company, which keep your prescription details, Apple Intelligence deletes the data once you receive a response—a fact Apple could verify if necessary.
It appears I did not need the cloud; my prescription information stayed on my iPhone to create the request, thanks to the Apple Foundation models running locally.
Luckily I live in a country with universal healthcare and our pharmacies don’t transmit prescription medication info to credit cards. They just show some prescription medication was purchased
The Apple Intelligence Shortcuts creation is great as well. I never had a desire to learn their visual programming language so I mostly ignored Shortcuts. Now it's one-shot some really handy utilities for me.
Doing inference locally is a significant improvement, but other issues remain, like prompt injection and data exfiltration.
Especially if the whole point is to have it search through a giant pile of arbitrary un-vetted stuff, like all the emails you ever received from anybody.
> I'll say they definitely need to let people disable/offload the model
If you have used mac/iOS (esp. Mac; well, because on iOS you can't do anything other than what's on screen essentially) for a long time you might realise Apple, at this point, is simply not capable of even developing those features that will allow users to do such things. And you don't even have to know Swift/objC for this sad realisation. I am pretty sure someone would have mentioned and they'd have realised it meant moving around a million hardcoded modules and frameworks and turning on/off a billion flags (a lot of them potentially global). They are that incompetent when it comes to software.
Tried new Siri to set the timer when cooking- it failed to deliver.
First, it’s unreliable in when to say what you want after Hey Siri, then it just didn’t do anything, and the third time it silently set the timer but didn’t confirm anything so I have then set another timer manually to only find out later that they both run.
Hard to trust this product with anything serious when it still can’t do the job of a kitchen clock from half a century ago
Not the Gmail app, but a Gmail account, yes. You have to at least have the default Mail app installed and signed in for it to be able to index the emails.
On one of my machines, I don’t know if I could even make it fit. So it’s a no-brainer to not update on that one, if they are going to force an extra 14GB download on me.
Perhaps eventually. I know I’m in a “closed ecosystem,” and that removes a fair bit of choice in a variety of places. But Apple is known to walk bad decisions back at times. This update is an example, with liquid glass. Another recent one was the iCloud private email planned domain change being scrapped.
Liquid Glass was rushed out because their flagship WWDC feature, Apple Intelligence, wasn’t ready as expected. They knew they didn’t finish refining Glass as they had intended to. They had unfinished work with Glass that got pushed to this year due to the last minute change in direction. The refinements we got weren’t only the product of feedback and they already intended to revisit the design.
This situation is a bit different where they’ve taken several years delay now to refine their AI strategy before releasing it.
If they let users permanently opt out of their AI rollouts this early on, their stock will plummet. They’re going to focus on making it better to drive adoption and value instead of letting people remove themselves from exposure to what they have in the pipeline.
I mean they added a slider to make Liquid Glass slightly less bad, but the “good” end is just the old “reduce transparency” option. They’ve got a lot of progress to make, if they are ever going to give us back the pre-liquid-glass UI density.
By that logic why not fill the hard drive with OS data? This is a company mind you that still sells some laptops with a base configuration of 256GB, so 10-20GB isn't an insignificant amount to many users especially when it's taken by a feature they may not even use.
Many apps (like dictation apps) ship with their own models totally separate from Apple Intelligence.
For example, Co-Typist [1] is very useful, but it requires a model installed with it, ranging from Gemma 3 1B at 0.8 GB to Gemma 4 26B A4B Pro at 15.7 GB. It recommended Gemma E2B (3.2 GB) for my 16 GB, M1 Pro MacBook Pro.
It works really well; the autocompletion is so good, it knows what I'm going to type before I do!
Here's the thing: you may not be aware of the amount of storage being used by models in various 3rd-party apps.
The open-source app What The Model [2] scans your machine and reports all the models it finds and gives you the total amount of storage being used.
Worth pointing out that the Foundational Models can be used by more than just Siri - apps, shortcuts, etc can call/run those models for local inference.
Tangentially related, I've always been frustrated by Apple's refusal to allow sorting photos/videos by file size. It feels like a blatant push to force users towards paying for their cloud storage.
Apple intelligence is listed as 29 GB in the Storage settings. Which should be the amount of space you get back.
MacOS 27 is also diffrent in that it does still downloads the data for EU users and removes or hides options in menues to dissable functionality. This means users lose the said space when upgrading to 27.
I'm not upset, just pointing out TweakTown gave Apple's AI misleading information about Apple's products. You might have 30GB of wasted space on your 128GB drive due to Apple Intelligence features on your Mac (like me).
Apologies, I didn't mean to upset you. Per the title I was talking about the downloaded core model sizes, which are a bit under 8 GB or 14 GB in OS 27 depending on device: https://support.apple.com/en-us/121115
Yeah I use my 256gb Mac Mini for iOS dev, which has always had enough space for an iPad and iPhone simulator with plenty to spare, but this eats way into that.
"look, MacOS is following the same trend as windows as to become measurably worse over time, with bloat, slop, user hostile/dark pattern, removing freedoms configuration and escape hatches"
i wonder how many of them are like 100% of my requests?
- "set a timer for 14 minutes"
- "remind me to make a doctor's appointment tomorrow at noon"
- "turn off the bedroom lights"
that don't require any form of AI and have functioned perfectly well (aside from having a hard time when i mumble) for years on non-AI versions of Siri?
I suspect even some of the more "advanced" queries they demoed off, i.e., "what was that restaurant John and I talked about last week?" also not require LLMs whatsoever and could have been accomplished with a simple search.
Not necessarily. NLP is possible to do without any ML. See ELIZA [0] as an example, which used pattern matching and substitution to process natural language. A few simple rules can cover a majority of requests. It's still AI, but not ML.
Though I do agree that the ML-based NLP thst we have today is much more usable, albeit more compute-expensive.
I get forced to use it While using CarPlay. I don't particularly want it, though, considering it still regularly fails at basic tasks like adding the currently playing song to a playlist.
If you have a car you are forced to because you can’t use Apple Car Play if you don’t enable Siri.
I also don’t use but I have to have it enabled to be able to use Google Maps, and Siri occasionally mistakes a conversation for being invited to listen and speak.
>you can’t use Apple Car Play if you don’t enable Siri.
It works for me, but I'm using wired carplay on an iphone 11 w/ios27. (In the US, Swapped to Siri Classic, then disabled it.)
Looking around online it seems doing it wired can bypass the Siri requirement. Which may work in my case because in the Ford headunit I can force wireless projection to be off and blocked (including turning off the wifi for the headunit). So some cars might be forcing wireless Carplay and triggering the Siri requirement.
The issue it's they make it very hard to remove it to clear the space used by it, i think you got to boot into recovery mode and do some risky crap, my macbook is almost out of space just from development cache..
Is there a version of this that uses more than 10% of my horizontal screen space? I have a 40in monitor, I don't need the website compressed to the aspect ratio of a phone.
There's a distinction worth drawing here: "on-device" and "local" are not the same thing, and this thread is really about the gap between them. A model Apple pushes to your disk that you can't inspect, swap, or remove, that runs when the OS decides, is on-device in the literal sense and gives you none of the control that makes local AI worth wanting. Local, in the sense people actually mean it, is that you chose the weights, you chose when it runs, and you can delete it. Forcing a 14-29GB model you can't uninstall is the inverse of that. The storage complaint is real, but the deeper one is that "we put AI on your device" quietly became "we put our AI on your device."
... can you also force Siri off by using Screen Time controls? I noticed that in the Screen Time menus, "Content and Privacy" restrictions can be toggled on. From there seems to be an additional "Siri" menu that lets me change the allowed Siri version from Siri Classic to Siri AI as well as options to turn off the global writing tools/assistance (which turns off the annoying Siri bubble on every textbox now).
I suspect forcing Siri off via those controls would work easier than using Low Data Mode or trying to force Siri to disable via language selection.
I'll say they definitely need to let people disable/offload the model, but if you haven't tried the new Siri, it's been great. Obviously it's not a state of the art LLM, but it's good enough, and the fact that it can search and take actions on your local data makes it incredibly useful. I definitely use it more on my iPhone where it's slower to get things done the traditional way, but I use it all the time now.
"What was the quote for my insurance claim?" - it'll look through your emails and pull the number with the source email so you can jump right to it.
The other day I asked "when did I arrive and leave Mexico City on my trip at the end of 2024?" and it nailed it based off my flight receipt.
Since learning Spanish I get a lot more Spanish stuff in my feeds, and if I e.g. don't understand a meme I'll just ask "explain the joke here" and it reads the screen and explains it.
You can have an article open in Safari and say "remind me to read this tonight" and it'll make a reminder with the link. Or you can modify reminders - "move my reminder to get groceries to tomorrow at the same time". Yesterday I told it to make me a reminder and it did, but I worded it in a clunky way so I followed it with "reword that to sound more natural" and it did it.
We've been trained for a long time to think Siri can't do anything but I urge you to try it once you're on the new one, it's quite good. And I'm sure I've barely touched all the things it can do. David Pogue published a pretty thorough test other day:
https://pogueman.substack.com/p/125-tests-of-the-new-ai-siri
Siri AI is very capable, but *I* should have control over when and whether *I* decide to enable or completely delete it.
I wasn't expecting Apple to force-feed the AI into my mouth with this new Siri release, but turning "Apple Intelligence" into "Siri AI" and removing the opt-out toggle is gross.
(You can't disable all of other fka Apple Intelligence stuff without disabling Siri AI, and you can't disable Siri AI without switching your Siri language to an unsupported region and turning a bunch of stuff off in Content Privacy and Restrictions. On Watch, Siri is front and center of your Suggested Apps carousel --- which they removed Recent Apps to create, an extremely useful feature --- unless you change YOUR ENTIRE WATCH'S REGION to some other unsupported country. None of this is okay.)
Anecdotally, I can do all of the stuff you've listed can be done without Siri AI or "Classic" Siri and get correct answers almost 100% of the time.
Like all macos features you used to like/depend on...
"privacy is a right"
becomes
privacy is a "defaults write <obscure-key>"
As a side note, the Apple Watch changes have completely made Camera Remote unusable for me, a feature I loved.
I don't know why, but I usually can only get Camera Remote to work when I close all of the recent apps on my Apple Watch, even when my watch and phone were the newest ones Apple released. Probably a bug with memory management they're never going to fix. Now, that's not possible, even when I reboot my watch :(
I'm with you. The new Watch update messed a lot of stuff up for me. I have Shazam linked to my Action Button; it's always been flakey but it feels flakier lately. Losing Walkie-Talkie is a big miss too, as my wife and I use that feature often.
I agree that you should have the ability to remove AI features, but that isn't the direction Apple has followed for the past decade or so. There's a lot of stuff in macOS that one should be able to remove, or at least disable, if one isn't interested in living within the Apple ecosystem.
> Anecdotally, I can do all of the stuff you've listed can be done without Siri AI or "Classic" Siri and get correct answers almost 100% of the time
You mean the way that takes 20x as long?
Better for it to take 20x as long and be right than to be 20x faster but be wrong while looking right...
The one that is almost just as fast workflow wise, far more capable, has more features, is developed at a faster pace, and is not forced on the user screwing their privacy.
Our experiences diverge surprisingly far. The new Siri was worse for everything I use it for before I turned it off.
The new Siri can not reliably return the weather (it seems it's prompting on the literal text of the town and asks for a clarification sometimes about whether I am in the United States or United Kingdom), and when I ask "what is the air quality index", the new Siri would sometimes return the definition of AQI. When it returns a value, new Siri would hallucinate an incorrect and fixed value. In the cases where it does work, it's very much slower than the classic "rainbow orb" Siri.
I've never even tried to ask Siri about the weather because I have a widget for that to the left of my homescreen. And it's on my watch.
I get that these are things you might do regularly and feel more empowered to use Siri for them... but they're rather banal and could be done with literally a one or two step process previously, especially if you're already using Apple's first-party apps which seem to be a requirement here. In both email cases, Spotlight handles searches like that just fine, and moving a calendar event only requires clicking and dragging.
I'm here wondering why so much extra space is warranted, or how to take it back, not so much how I can find a document with specific text in it or use Siri to do something else that was already very easy.
One task I'm wondering about is for example, asking Siri (on the mac) to analyze a huge dump of arbitrary PDFs that may or may not have non-OCRed text in them, and efficiently reorg and rename them based on what the documents should be. This also seems like a mundane task, but requires a little more than just a standard search and would allow someone to take their entire paper archive of private business documents and create a digital archive without too much risk or work. This is something that all local models I've tried so far really struggle with.
I don't know which Spotlight search you've been using but it certainly has not been consistent and reliable in years.
And I don't find manually searching for emails to find something like flight dates that easy. I've flown to/from Mexico city 6 times in the past couple years, and the airline tends to send like 12 emails pertaining to every trip I book, so asking Siri is much faster.
Not to mention these are tasks I'll be able to do in winter while wearing gloves.
A couple of things I've done with Apple Intelligence on the Mac:
* When I need a prescription refilled, the quickest way is to message my doctor using the patient portal. I created a Shortcut that lets me pick among 5 medications; Apple Intelligence then generates a message with the request to the clipboard which I paste into the message field and send.
* I have a Shortcut that creates a morning summary: Apple Intelligence generates the weather report. I also get what’s on today's calendar and any current or past-due Reminders.
Just scratching the surface here; will flesh these out more later and create some new ones now that I'm running the release version of Golden Gate and not the beta.
Not sure if I want Siri to know my prescription medication.
> Not sure if I want Siri to know my prescription medication.
Using Shortcuts, a user can use the Cloud model via Private Cloud Compute, the Cloud Pro with "world knowledge, and the on-device model. It occurred to me I probably don't need the Cloud; I switched to the on-device model, which worked fine.
There's no way for Siri or anybody else to know anything about a transaction using Private Cloud Compute:
[1]: https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/I am sorry no amount of assurances from any company is going to make me reveal my medical information to products from any tech company.
> I am sorry no amount of assurances from any company is going to make me reveal my medical information to products from any tech company.
Unlike your insurance provider or credit card company, which keep your prescription details, Apple Intelligence deletes the data once you receive a response—a fact Apple could verify if necessary.
It appears I did not need the cloud; my prescription information stayed on my iPhone to create the request, thanks to the Apple Foundation models running locally.
Luckily I live in a country with universal healthcare and our pharmacies don’t transmit prescription medication info to credit cards. They just show some prescription medication was purchased
what a cute anecdote. much success to your assurances
The Apple Intelligence Shortcuts creation is great as well. I never had a desire to learn their visual programming language so I mostly ignored Shortcuts. Now it's one-shot some really handy utilities for me.
> "What was the quote for my insurance claim?" - it'll look through your emails and pull the number with the source email so you can jump right to it.
> The other day I asked "when did I arrive and leave Mexico City on my trip at the end of 2024?" and it nailed it based off my flight receipt.
Where you see convenience, I see a security nightmare.
He says, browsing the Internet, probably with a Google account.
(Whispering) multiple things can, in fact, be bad
(speaking normally, as this is the internet and not an orchestra) No one said, in fact, that they couldn’t
Why do you keep making burners?
How? It's all on machine. Which is the point.
Doing inference locally is a significant improvement, but other issues remain, like prompt injection and data exfiltration.
Especially if the whole point is to have it search through a giant pile of arbitrary un-vetted stuff, like all the emails you ever received from anybody.
Why, factoring in the design of Apple Intelligence?
> I'll say they definitely need to let people disable/offload the model
If you have used mac/iOS (esp. Mac; well, because on iOS you can't do anything other than what's on screen essentially) for a long time you might realise Apple, at this point, is simply not capable of even developing those features that will allow users to do such things. And you don't even have to know Swift/objC for this sad realisation. I am pretty sure someone would have mentioned and they'd have realised it meant moving around a million hardcoded modules and frameworks and turning on/off a billion flags (a lot of them potentially global). They are that incompetent when it comes to software.
Tried new Siri to set the timer when cooking- it failed to deliver.
First, it’s unreliable in when to say what you want after Hey Siri, then it just didn’t do anything, and the third time it silently set the timer but didn’t confirm anything so I have then set another timer manually to only find out later that they both run.
Hard to trust this product with anything serious when it still can’t do the job of a kitchen clock from half a century ago
Posted: "Turn off and restrict access to Apple Intelligence features on Mac" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49790409
Not a bad list from Apple.
Is it able to work with non default apps like Gmail?
Not the Gmail app, but a Gmail account, yes. You have to at least have the default Mail app installed and signed in for it to be able to index the emails.
This type of stuff gives me PTSD flashbacks from trying timo de-crapify Windows.
Yeah, I’ll wait to update my computers until Apple gives us an actual choice.
I still don't see a good reason to upgrade from Sequoia.
I was skipping Tahoe too after seeing all those posts about the differently rounded corners.
This time I took the plunge and upgraded, and I have to admit the whole system, especially Safari is much more snappy than before.
macOS 27 is way faster and more stable than macOS 26 though, so unless you are on an ancient version it doesn't make sense to not upgrade.
Being short on disk space is a pretty good reason to not upgrade.
I would rather keep my personal picture library on my local disk (with backups, of course) than gigabytes and gigabytes of Apple models.
They were the ones who thought that 256Gb was a reasonable number. And it actually did work pretty well, until they wanted to fill it with models.
On one of my machines, I don’t know if I could even make it fit. So it’s a no-brainer to not update on that one, if they are going to force an extra 14GB download on me.
Calling something cutting edge one year ago “ancient” is absolutely wild. To me that word means, like, pre Apple Silicon.
Ancient to me means like OSX Tiger
I've hit some really weird window/workspace UI bugs so far in MacOS27. It's not no-brainer update yet, IMO.
> I've hit some really weird window/workspace UI bugs so far in MacOS27.
Lucky for us, macOS 27.2 is already in beta: https://www.macrumors.com/2026/09/21/apple-seeds-macos-27-2-...
It keeps putting my left mounted dock on the wrong monitor for some reason. never happened before.
macOS 15 still gets security updates.
That's what I use on my M1 Macbook Air too, works fine.
[dead]
Time to permanently offboard from Apple ecosystem then
Perhaps eventually. I know I’m in a “closed ecosystem,” and that removes a fair bit of choice in a variety of places. But Apple is known to walk bad decisions back at times. This update is an example, with liquid glass. Another recent one was the iCloud private email planned domain change being scrapped.
Liquid Glass was rushed out because their flagship WWDC feature, Apple Intelligence, wasn’t ready as expected. They knew they didn’t finish refining Glass as they had intended to. They had unfinished work with Glass that got pushed to this year due to the last minute change in direction. The refinements we got weren’t only the product of feedback and they already intended to revisit the design.
This situation is a bit different where they’ve taken several years delay now to refine their AI strategy before releasing it.
If they let users permanently opt out of their AI rollouts this early on, their stock will plummet. They’re going to focus on making it better to drive adoption and value instead of letting people remove themselves from exposure to what they have in the pipeline.
I mean they added a slider to make Liquid Glass slightly less bad, but the “good” end is just the old “reduce transparency” option. They’ve got a lot of progress to make, if they are ever going to give us back the pre-liquid-glass UI density.
Though what about security fixes?
why is a local model any different than any other file they want to install with their os?
Well because it could be an extra ~20GB which is not nothing if you have a 256GB disk.
By that logic why not fill the hard drive with OS data? This is a company mind you that still sells some laptops with a base configuration of 256GB, so 10-20GB isn't an insignificant amount to many users especially when it's taken by a feature they may not even use.
It's 14GB of something I don't want, need, nor have any use for, on a machine that is notorious for making storage upgrades difficult.
because some people don't want AI and would rather even the files were not present in their computer.
I do want (some, carefully curated as to certain usecases) AI. But I don't want to waste my diskspace for this AI.
Friendly reminder:
Many apps (like dictation apps) ship with their own models totally separate from Apple Intelligence.
For example, Co-Typist [1] is very useful, but it requires a model installed with it, ranging from Gemma 3 1B at 0.8 GB to Gemma 4 26B A4B Pro at 15.7 GB. It recommended Gemma E2B (3.2 GB) for my 16 GB, M1 Pro MacBook Pro.
It works really well; the autocompletion is so good, it knows what I'm going to type before I do!
Here's the thing: you may not be aware of the amount of storage being used by models in various 3rd-party apps.
The open-source app What The Model [2] scans your machine and reports all the models it finds and gives you the total amount of storage being used.
[1]: https://cotypist.app
[2]: https://github.com/powtac/wtm
Worth pointing out that the Foundational Models can be used by more than just Siri - apps, shortcuts, etc can call/run those models for local inference.
Tangentially related, I've always been frustrated by Apple's refusal to allow sorting photos/videos by file size. It feels like a blatant push to force users towards paying for their cloud storage.
Not ideal, but their disk space recovery thing in settings can do I believe.
How much storage does this save?
Apple intelligence is listed as 29 GB in the Storage settings. Which should be the amount of space you get back.
MacOS 27 is also diffrent in that it does still downloads the data for EU users and removes or hides options in menues to dissable functionality. This means users lose the said space when upgrading to 27.
Apple Intelligence is available on macOS in the EU. It's only disabled on iOS/iPadOS.
Interestingly, Siri AI was able to answer this with a reference: Up to 14 GB. https://imgur.com/a/SZGh1ca
That's not a reliable source or reference. Read the disclaimer at the bottom.
> That's not a reliable source or reference. Read the disclaimer at the bottom.
The "Always verify important details. Siri is an Al that may make mistakes." is the new version of "your mileage may vary".
Also, I get a similar message when using Gemini, OpenAI and Claude.
I own a "Standard iPhone" and an M1 Mac; these numbers track.
LLMs are not sources.
Keep tilting at windmills. Wikipedia was also not a source
Yes, I'd sanity-checked the answer on my machine, which is 15.5 GB on iOS 27.2: https://imgur.com/a/XVT8rme
Not all of the space used by Apple Intelligence is downloaded model size, which explains the reasonable difference.
Your reality is yours, not mine. https://imgur.com/a/3viouLd
I'm not upset, just pointing out TweakTown gave Apple's AI misleading information about Apple's products. You might have 30GB of wasted space on your 128GB drive due to Apple Intelligence features on your Mac (like me).
Apologies, I didn't mean to upset you. Per the title I was talking about the downloaded core model sizes, which are a bit under 8 GB or 14 GB in OS 27 depending on device: https://support.apple.com/en-us/121115
They need an option to completely disable and delete Apple Intelligence.
A 256GB Mac Mini is effectively unable to use macOS 27 due to this bloated nonsense.
Yeah I use my 256gb Mac Mini for iOS dev, which has always had enough space for an iPad and iPhone simulator with plenty to spare, but this eats way into that.
I am tired to fight against every platform that I have to use
De macify Mac Degoogle Android Demacify ipad DeLLM chrome browsers local llm
Can we expect sane decisions from corpos about what we want rather than what latest thing they want to push on us?
no. buy a linux compatible laptop and deal with the UX downgrade.
There are definitely some cool features missing, but I'd take KDE over any other window manager without a second thought if it were possible.
I’ve found the downgrade surprisingly minimal on plasma 6 - and it’s far more customizable.
Thanks to marginal gains on MacOs (nee OS X) the Linux desktop gets closer more quickly than Apple can pull away.
Yes I use cosmic DE on Fedora. I didn't find it a downgrade at all! Despite not running an M chip it is butter smooth
What downgrade? A typical Gnome desktop is far more coherent than Windows or even macOS in some regards these days.
Yes, and you can do much better than GNOME, too.
KDE. KDE is all you need.
If you’re gonna use KDE, just go with Windows. Same UI paradigm and, surprisingly, Windows looks better (that’s how bad KDE looks).
"look, MacOS is following the same trend as windows as to become measurably worse over time, with bloat, slop, user hostile/dark pattern, removing freedoms configuration and escape hatches"
"KDE is immune to those by design"
"Then use Windows"
I'm surely convinced!
One arguably don’t even need KDE any more; the coding models will throw together a perfectly adequate desktop environment.
Why should one use something adequate when something amazing exists?
Not sure what the point of this would be? Devalued street creds for running something nobody else does? Who cares?
Well, it's literally the reason Omarchy exists so some people like it...
Apple says their users make 2.5B Siri requests per day. Sounds like people want it?
Never met anyone who used siri out in public, to be honest.
i wonder how many of them are like 100% of my requests?
- "set a timer for 14 minutes"
- "remind me to make a doctor's appointment tomorrow at noon"
- "turn off the bedroom lights"
that don't require any form of AI and have functioned perfectly well (aside from having a hard time when i mumble) for years on non-AI versions of Siri?
I suspect even some of the more "advanced" queries they demoed off, i.e., "what was that restaurant John and I talked about last week?" also not require LLMs whatsoever and could have been accomplished with a simple search.
I think you're going to need some kind of ML to turn that question into a structured search, and interpret the results.
Not necessarily. NLP is possible to do without any ML. See ELIZA [0] as an example, which used pattern matching and substitution to process natural language. A few simple rules can cover a majority of requests. It's still AI, but not ML.
Though I do agree that the ML-based NLP thst we have today is much more usable, albeit more compute-expensive.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA
This matches my use cases. Poor speech to text recognition so I don't trust siri to do anything non-trivial
Siri was always AI, but the popular connotation of "AI" changes all the time. It now means "LLMs built with transformers."
Do they have a breakdown for platforms? iOS vs. macOS, I'd bet most of it is iOS.
I don't have Siri enabled, I've never felt the need for it on desktop.
I use it on the desktop.
Even though I do use it, a choice would be nice.
Timers. Easily >50% of these requests are people setting timers.
I get forced to use it While using CarPlay. I don't particularly want it, though, considering it still regularly fails at basic tasks like adding the currently playing song to a playlist.
Are they aware?
How many apple devices exist globally?
Does everyone use siri? How about keeping it opt-in?
I dont even have Siri enabled, but even less so on macOS.
If you have a car you are forced to because you can’t use Apple Car Play if you don’t enable Siri.
I also don’t use but I have to have it enabled to be able to use Google Maps, and Siri occasionally mistakes a conversation for being invited to listen and speak.
>you can’t use Apple Car Play if you don’t enable Siri.
It works for me, but I'm using wired carplay on an iphone 11 w/ios27. (In the US, Swapped to Siri Classic, then disabled it.)
Looking around online it seems doing it wired can bypass the Siri requirement. Which may work in my case because in the Ford headunit I can force wireless projection to be off and blocked (including turning off the wifi for the headunit). So some cars might be forcing wireless Carplay and triggering the Siri requirement.
Curious. I have Siri turned off (just checked again) and I use Apple CarPlay daily. Maybe an EU thing.
> 2.5B Siri requests per day
that's like one request per day per user lolol
The issue it's they make it very hard to remove it to clear the space used by it, i think you got to boot into recovery mode and do some risky crap, my macbook is almost out of space just from development cache..
You don't need to. Use the alternatives.
If Siri and Apple Intelligence is disabled in the settings, does it still do the download?
Off topic. Since old.reddit is now login walled - is there an alternative frontend?
If you are interested in read-only access pick one a Redlib instance https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib-instances/blob/main/ins...
Use "Old Reedit Redirect" for Firefox - it still lets you in without a login.
If you meant this extension - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/old-reddit-re... - it doesn't work. I still get the javascript crappified "new" Reddit.
safereddit.com
Is there a version of this that uses more than 10% of my horizontal screen space? I have a 40in monitor, I don't need the website compressed to the aspect ratio of a phone.
There's a distinction worth drawing here: "on-device" and "local" are not the same thing, and this thread is really about the gap between them. A model Apple pushes to your disk that you can't inspect, swap, or remove, that runs when the OS decides, is on-device in the literal sense and gives you none of the control that makes local AI worth wanting. Local, in the sense people actually mean it, is that you chose the weights, you chose when it runs, and you can delete it. Forcing a 14-29GB model you can't uninstall is the inverse of that. The storage complaint is real, but the deeper one is that "we put AI on your device" quietly became "we put our AI on your device."
[flagged]
without a reddit account:
... can you also force Siri off by using Screen Time controls? I noticed that in the Screen Time menus, "Content and Privacy" restrictions can be toggled on. From there seems to be an additional "Siri" menu that lets me change the allowed Siri version from Siri Classic to Siri AI as well as options to turn off the global writing tools/assistance (which turns off the annoying Siri bubble on every textbox now).
I suspect forcing Siri off via those controls would work easier than using Low Data Mode or trying to force Siri to disable via language selection.