But I find it flabbergasting that in 2026 someone in the management thought it'd be okay to tell female staff to hide, just because some delegation demanded it. But for the tech-relevancy angle; They could've asked AI "Would this be fine?".
(Untested, presumably the AI would say "Merde! Non!")
Whether it be corporates, Eiffel Tower management, or religious groups, I guess the new norm is - better to ask for forgiveness.
I am Indian origin so full disclosure done. I saw a picture of the group's 93 year old head in ascetic robes, the one who does not see women, have a picture below Eiffel Tower for memories. Sir, what part of asceticism do you teach?
To play devils advocate: Isn't it that the management had to choose between two potential problematic decisions? What if the management declined the hindu request and then the hindus made a big fuss about it? Wouldn't people scream "how could they think that discriminating the hindu religion would be a good decision?!?".
France has a storied history of resisting efforts to impose non-western, extremist beliefs on them
You could start with Charlie Hebdo for an idea of how it might be received if a religious extremist group wanted to fuss over hiding French women from the public.
> But I find it flabbergasting that in 2026 someone in the management thought it'd be okay to tell female staff to hide, just because some delegation demanded it
You're looking at the results of years of indoctrination related to the intersectional pyramid of oppression. On that pyramid you'll quickly find that people of colour practising an exotic religion end up above female employees so (most likely white, male) management thought it better to risk giving in to the former's request out of fear of being called 'racist' or something related. Sad, stupid, silly and totally not fitting Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité but that's what this type of thinking leads to.
As to the answer given by any 'AI' that depends on whether it has been trained to follow the dictats of intersectionality. Unfortunately this seems to be the case [1,2,3] in at least some western models which claim that a woman using violence against a man to prevent a nuclear apocalypse is fine but disagree with a man using violence against a woman for the same purpose, which also refuse to 'misgender' someone to stop the apocalypse, etc. This is not the natural result of ingesting training data but points at a direct effort to instil these values into the model leading to rather crude and easily dismissed results.
As a thought experiment, perhaps someone there thought not fulfilling the Indian group's request would be seen as insensitive.
I suppose the decisionmaker needs to know what societal values one has to uphold, and in which order of importance. As a wild example, if the group had demanded the women walk around in the nude, because of their religion, it'd be obvious to say no because it'd violate so many of the employees' values.
Yes, it boils down to a conflict between two cultures. And when you visit a place, the expectation should be that you will respect local culture. If you cannot do that, stay home.
What if the Hindus had said "we are vegans, please don't serve us meat" - probably reasonable enough, although I seem to recall some rightwingers getting angry about some other occasion where only vegetarian food was to be served.
Yeah, as a host I'd be fine with meeting their dietary restrictions; but would refuse their with staff gender restrictions. Somehow the management company didn't know where this acceptability border lied.
> Company head Ariel Weil told the AFP news agency that SETE will "draw the necessary conclusions" from the case. Weil himself is an elected official in Paris.
All 3 things are so typical:
1) Ascetics living the high life
2) The French striking
3) Europeans throwing modern civil rights under the bus to accommodate foreigners who don't respect women
It is distressing that so many groups, usually calling themselves "ideologies" or "religions" demand that the countries where they happen to be cancel their own values. ESPECIALLY when it comes to values like equality.
In this case equality between men and women, but let's not pretend that for most ideologies that is any more than just one of many inequalities they would like to introduce. Sorry, "to have respected", as if that means anything different.
There's an irony those unions have supported the very politicians who brought the Hindus over who request the women be removed. People forget western culture is a unique culture, and could easily be supplanted.
As others have pointed out though this probably isn't relevant for HN
Fair enough, the apostrophe was incorrect. Everything else you said feels a bit ignorant though, if you want to live in a world where women are banned from working that's your opinion but I will disagree with you.
Brown people banned from france?, what are you talking about? Not having women barred from working at a place doesn't ban a group. Also a typo doesn't invalidate a point,not everyone cares if you miss some grammar on a comment.
Let's adapt your own prose to your statement: maybe you claim this because you are "native", and yet at the bottom of the intellectual scale because you are overeducated, who decided his only joy in life is to punch what you consider to be 'down'
Probably not HN-relevant...
But I find it flabbergasting that in 2026 someone in the management thought it'd be okay to tell female staff to hide, just because some delegation demanded it. But for the tech-relevancy angle; They could've asked AI "Would this be fine?".
(Untested, presumably the AI would say "Merde! Non!")
Whether it be corporates, Eiffel Tower management, or religious groups, I guess the new norm is - better to ask for forgiveness.
I am Indian origin so full disclosure done. I saw a picture of the group's 93 year old head in ascetic robes, the one who does not see women, have a picture below Eiffel Tower for memories. Sir, what part of asceticism do you teach?
To play devils advocate: Isn't it that the management had to choose between two potential problematic decisions? What if the management declined the hindu request and then the hindus made a big fuss about it? Wouldn't people scream "how could they think that discriminating the hindu religion would be a good decision?!?".
France has a storied history of resisting efforts to impose non-western, extremist beliefs on them
You could start with Charlie Hebdo for an idea of how it might be received if a religious extremist group wanted to fuss over hiding French women from the public.
"They wanted us to hide female staff" would get French society to support them again..
Not even that. Just say "we didn't refuse them entry, they chose not to come because we employ women".
BAPS denies that they made any such request (let alone a _demand_); seems weird that DW omits any mention of this.
I can see why they would say that.
I can’t see any reason why the tower management would sideline half of their staff without someone asking them to.
> But I find it flabbergasting that in 2026 someone in the management thought it'd be okay to tell female staff to hide, just because some delegation demanded it
You're looking at the results of years of indoctrination related to the intersectional pyramid of oppression. On that pyramid you'll quickly find that people of colour practising an exotic religion end up above female employees so (most likely white, male) management thought it better to risk giving in to the former's request out of fear of being called 'racist' or something related. Sad, stupid, silly and totally not fitting Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité but that's what this type of thinking leads to.
As to the answer given by any 'AI' that depends on whether it has been trained to follow the dictats of intersectionality. Unfortunately this seems to be the case [1,2,3] in at least some western models which claim that a woman using violence against a man to prevent a nuclear apocalypse is fine but disagree with a man using violence against a woman for the same purpose, which also refuse to 'misgender' someone to stop the apocalypse, etc. This is not the natural result of ingesting training data but points at a direct effort to instil these values into the model leading to rather crude and easily dismissed results.
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245195882...
[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68412620
[3] https://www.broadview.news/p/in-the-event-of-nuclear-war-ple...
Tolerance of intolerance, what a world
As a thought experiment, perhaps someone there thought not fulfilling the Indian group's request would be seen as insensitive.
I suppose the decisionmaker needs to know what societal values one has to uphold, and in which order of importance. As a wild example, if the group had demanded the women walk around in the nude, because of their religion, it'd be obvious to say no because it'd violate so many of the employees' values.
Yes, it boils down to a conflict between two cultures. And when you visit a place, the expectation should be that you will respect local culture. If you cannot do that, stay home.
And there's respecting of guests' religion.
What if the Hindus had said "we are vegans, please don't serve us meat" - probably reasonable enough, although I seem to recall some rightwingers getting angry about some other occasion where only vegetarian food was to be served.
Yeah, as a host I'd be fine with meeting their dietary restrictions; but would refuse their with staff gender restrictions. Somehow the management company didn't know where this acceptability border lied.
This!
And the Elites tut tut at people voting AfD and Le Pen.
These %$%#@& are fuelling the far right.
Facepalm!
Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
> Company head Ariel Weil told the AFP news agency that SETE will "draw the necessary conclusions" from the case. Weil himself is an elected official in Paris.
Curious what those conclusions will be.
All 3 things are so typical: 1) Ascetics living the high life 2) The French striking 3) Europeans throwing modern civil rights under the bus to accommodate foreigners who don't respect women
Regarding 3) This is France, where in some areas swimwear on beaches is regulated. No "burkini", even non-tight-fitting swimshorts were disallowed.
So to shake your head and think "Woke Europe" would be too simplistic.
It is distressing that so many groups, usually calling themselves "ideologies" or "religions" demand that the countries where they happen to be cancel their own values. ESPECIALLY when it comes to values like equality.
In this case equality between men and women, but let's not pretend that for most ideologies that is any more than just one of many inequalities they would like to introduce. Sorry, "to have respected", as if that means anything different.
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There's an irony those unions have supported the very politicians who brought the Hindus over who request the women be removed. People forget western culture is a unique culture, and could easily be supplanted.
As others have pointed out though this probably isn't relevant for HN
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Fair enough, the apostrophe was incorrect. Everything else you said feels a bit ignorant though, if you want to live in a world where women are banned from working that's your opinion but I will disagree with you.
If you want to live in a world where brown people are banned from living in France that's your opinion but I will disagree with you.
Brown people banned from france?, what are you talking about? Not having women barred from working at a place doesn't ban a group. Also a typo doesn't invalidate a point,not everyone cares if you miss some grammar on a comment.
Let's adapt your own prose to your statement: maybe you claim this because you are "native", and yet at the bottom of the intellectual scale because you are overeducated, who decided his only joy in life is to punch what you consider to be 'down'