"The most obvious differences between different animals are differences of size, but for some reason the zoologists have paid singularly little attention to them. In a large textbook of zoology before me I find no indication that the eagle is larger than the sparrow, or the hippopotamus bigger than the hare, though some grudging admissions are made in the case of the mouse and the whale."
> The species was first documented in the 1970s and, being fairly new to scientific observation, has yet to be scientifically described. Because of this, LPSO has no official scientific name.
Is that a joke? It takes over 50 years to come up with a scientific name for a species?
“In the late 1960s, Aradio Rodaniche was diving off the coast of Nicaragua when he made the discovery that has tantalised cephalopod biologists ever since.
[…]
The discovery of an apparently social species was so implausible that few believed it and Rodaniche’s story passed into legend. He published a short account of the species in 1991, but hardly anyone had seen the animal and no one could confirm the report”
Finally, the group of people interested in having a species description may not be very large; and the group willing and able to create one even smaller. Nowadays the money in biology is in biochemistry.
> Finally, the group of people interested in having a species description may not be very large; and the group willing and able to create one even smaller.
Perhaps, but the caption on the picture in the article [0] says that it was taken at "an aquarium at the California Academy of Sciences", which sounds like the kind of place where octopus scientists hang out. And the article cited in Wikipedia [1] has quite a few authors, which makes me think that there's something more complicated going on here.
Huh interesting. I, like most San Franciscans, know the Cal Academy as primarily a public aquarium with a smaller research arm associated with it. I didn’t know they do the kind of research that leads to species description. Would have expected them to be downstream of that.
One critical feature of these octopuses is that they don't just die after mating (most species of octopus do)... Which opens up possibilities, like teaching their young skills they have acquired.
Something about seeing "gregarious nature" used to describe a non-human animal feels so... whimsical? I like it. Likewise with "intimate embrace" and other descriptions that follow.
I've been fascinated by Cephalopods since reading (the excellent) book "Other Minds" by Peter Godfrey-Smith. They are probably the closest we'll get to an alien intelligence. Their nervous systems evolved along a completely different evolutionary path from us vertebrates. It pains me that they are so short lived, though. I wonder what potential could be unlocked by their intelligence if they lived for 40 years or longer.
You just need to convice the ethics review board on some research lab to allow for editing the genes of a few octopus to make them longer lived, give them education, etc...
A long while back, I read (and just now refound) an article about a biologist's take on cooperation and competition. David Sloan Wilson is quoted as saying "Selfishness beats altruism within groups, [but] altruistic groups beat selfish groups, and everything else is commentary."
Despite the efforts of many of centuries, we are still so ignorant of the vast variety of life that surrounds and supports us on this planet. We should have more humility about this, but we (collectively, as a species) do not.
Some will say that AI can solve this, as is the fashion. But so far the things people are interested in doing with the new potential for synthesizing and translating animal sounds does not inspire any confidence[0].
Not to be combative, coming from genuine interest, I'd like to ask you why we should care? I study biology, and can think of a plethora of topics that we can study about human physiology that we don't understand and if we did would more directly lead to treatment of human diseases. That is not to say we need invest all resources towards this frontier but in the optimal scenario we must weight resource allocation to the potential usefulness of the discovery.
General knowledge is unpredictable. If you want to treat human diseases, explore the natural world, because a huge portion of the pharmacopea we have is in some way directly derived from general knowledge - the taxane family is derived from yew, sometimes when you explore easter island you find rapamycin, penicillin is a very old story of accidental primary research, it goes on and on. And many of the synthetics we have now are adaptations of an older drug with negative side effects to manage the side effects.
Hypothetically, in 100,000 years, if human activity has led to the death of everything not human on this planet and we ourselves are on the brink (effectively leading Earth to go back to square one) would you rather that, or humans end in 50,000 years but through conservation and study made way for other life on this planet that will eventually conquer space and some of the mysteries of the universe.
Obviously the timelines are insane but just as a thought experiment, I would suspect we would get different answers depending on who you ask, and thus the study, understanding and conservation of other life that shows a form of intelligence becomes much more important to some, whilst human preservation at the expense of all else is more important to others.
(I also recognise you aren't saying that by the way, but it's what came to mind when I read your comment. I personally think we have more than enough resources to do both. I'd also imagine we will learn more about ourselves and what's possible in medicine by studying other species.)
I don't think we have to understand the natural world to care about it. But I will go further haha: I think we _already_ prioritize human health and advancement above preserving anything about the natural world (unless we have identified that the preservation is advantageous for our own purposes.) And I reject this anthropocentric view, which is I suppose where we might differ :)
From a purely utilitariatic POV, understanding your environment helps avoiding mistakes that mess it up which then indirectly impacts you too since you depend on your environment. So, more understanding improves policy making.
Second, what people know is often valued more. If you can tell people about the environment then you can create a fascination and make them value their surroundings more, maybe causing them to think twice before dumping trash mindlessly in the forest or voting for the next guy who wants to expand fracking operations. And in order to tell them, you first need to understand it.
Third, it can give you material for creating useful tools or medicine which then improves lives, like vaccines or airplanes (which we wouldn't have without curiosity about birds).
Apart from that, it's empathy too. Animals can suffer and causing them suffering is usually against empathy people feel. More understanding helps with that. (It's not too long ago that the prevailing view of "that's just a fish, they don't feel anything, so I can eat them even though I'm vegetarian" was challenged and slowy overturned.)
And finally, beauty. Nature is just beautiful. Compared to a dead rock like mars, it's absolutely amazing what we have around us.
I hope these five reasons give you some perspective as a biology student.
I wonder, what made you choose that field of study?
"usefulness" being the keyword here. I agree that the investment of resources goes towards the "usefulness" as in, there is a profit to be made here "usefulness" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Irony: Nowhere on that page does it say how large that octopus actually is. An inch? 2 meters? Unclear.
To save you the google search, it's about "tennis ball size" according to https://30a.com/larger-pacific-striped-octopus/ . Somebody should add that to the wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Being_the_Right_Size
"The most obvious differences between different animals are differences of size, but for some reason the zoologists have paid singularly little attention to them. In a large textbook of zoology before me I find no indication that the eagle is larger than the sparrow, or the hippopotamus bigger than the hare, though some grudging admissions are made in the case of the mouse and the whale."
It's Wikipedia, I'm sure you can add it to the wiki in about as much time as it took you to write that post.
Not really, because you need a reputable source. The popular science article they linked is good enough for HN but WP would remove it.
Somebody? Why not you?
Indeed. Even easier: complain on the article's Talk page. Somebody else may then do the work for free.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing
Also, how many are there? Is it even known?
> The species was first documented in the 1970s and, being fairly new to scientific observation, has yet to be scientifically described. Because of this, LPSO has no official scientific name.
Is that a joke? It takes over 50 years to come up with a scientific name for a species?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2227516-octopuses-were-...:
“In the late 1960s, Aradio Rodaniche was diving off the coast of Nicaragua when he made the discovery that has tantalised cephalopod biologists ever since.
[…]
The discovery of an apparently social species was so implausible that few believed it and Rodaniche’s story passed into legend. He published a short account of the species in 1991, but hardly anyone had seen the animal and no one could confirm the report”
That takes account of (at least) a few decades.
I also think the issue isn’t coming up with a name but scientifically describing it. That (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_description) can take time.
Finally, the group of people interested in having a species description may not be very large; and the group willing and able to create one even smaller. Nowadays the money in biology is in biochemistry.
> Finally, the group of people interested in having a species description may not be very large; and the group willing and able to create one even smaller.
Perhaps, but the caption on the picture in the article [0] says that it was taken at "an aquarium at the California Academy of Sciences", which sounds like the kind of place where octopus scientists hang out. And the article cited in Wikipedia [1] has quite a few authors, which makes me think that there's something more complicated going on here.
[0]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Larger_Pacific_Strip...
[1]: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0134152
Huh interesting. I, like most San Franciscans, know the Cal Academy as primarily a public aquarium with a smaller research arm associated with it. I didn’t know they do the kind of research that leads to species description. Would have expected them to be downstream of that.
Hey, that's unfair. I'm working through the backlog as fast as I can!
Blame I.T. - they keep resetting my password and I'm not allowed to write it down on a Post-It like back in the old days...
One critical feature of these octopuses is that they don't just die after mating (most species of octopus do)... Which opens up possibilities, like teaching their young skills they have acquired.
Life expectancy is 2 years. They can mate more than once, but not many times more.
Well, unfortunately - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Reproduction - a just-hatched young octopus doesn't stick around, but drifts away in the current.
Also worth a read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory
The deep-sea octopus Graneledone boreopacifica has the longest known observed 53 month egg brooding period.
Something about seeing "gregarious nature" used to describe a non-human animal feels so... whimsical? I like it. Likewise with "intimate embrace" and other descriptions that follow.
The photo they've chosen for the article even supports this. It's like he's leaning on a bar twirling his moustache whilst giving you the side-eye.
"Gregarious" is a standard term in biology.
I've been fascinated by Cephalopods since reading (the excellent) book "Other Minds" by Peter Godfrey-Smith. They are probably the closest we'll get to an alien intelligence. Their nervous systems evolved along a completely different evolutionary path from us vertebrates. It pains me that they are so short lived, though. I wonder what potential could be unlocked by their intelligence if they lived for 40 years or longer.
You should read Time by Stephen Baxter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_(novel). Part of it deals with this precise topic.
Thank you - ordered!
You will be happy to read this then:
https://www.ciwf.org/media-and-news/press-releases-and-media...
"Other Minds" is definitely worth a read.
"the mountain in the sea" is recent sci fi that deals with this idea.
or read "Gentle Giant Octopus" to your kids, the ending hits parents a little hard though.
You just need to convice the ethics review board on some research lab to allow for editing the genes of a few octopus to make them longer lived, give them education, etc...
Q: What do you get when you cross an octopus with a cow?
A: An immediate cessation of funding and a stern letter from the Ethics Committee.
The nautilus is a genetic precursor to the octopus on the cephalopod branched tree of life and takes 20 years to mature.
Quite confusing how the referenced paper [1] juxtaposes Guatemala, Panama, and the (British) Columbia region of Canada.
Unless they actually meant Colombia. But peer review would certainly catch that.
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4534201/
Do we know why this species evolved to be social when most octopuses are solitary?
Game theory?
A long while back, I read (and just now refound) an article about a biologist's take on cooperation and competition. David Sloan Wilson is quoted as saying "Selfishness beats altruism within groups, [but] altruistic groups beat selfish groups, and everything else is commentary."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/mar/06/david-sloan-...
Perhaps with sufficient intelligence and time, altruism/cooperation is discovered to be a better fit for any given environment, and that's passed on.
What happens when they find even bigger ones?
They ask the guy who also names telescopes for the next name on the list.
Unfathomably Huge Pacific Striped Octopus
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Pro Max is still available
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_tit
They name the new one The Largest Pacific Striped Octopus
ELPSO
LPSO Astra.
I once read that zebras have stripes to keep mosquitos away.
Apparently one of them doing gig work as an personal OS agent now, too.[0]
[0]: https://github.com/istota-project/istota
Despite the efforts of many of centuries, we are still so ignorant of the vast variety of life that surrounds and supports us on this planet. We should have more humility about this, but we (collectively, as a species) do not.
Some will say that AI can solve this, as is the fashion. But so far the things people are interested in doing with the new potential for synthesizing and translating animal sounds does not inspire any confidence[0].
[0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-09-04/ai-s-next...
Not to be combative, coming from genuine interest, I'd like to ask you why we should care? I study biology, and can think of a plethora of topics that we can study about human physiology that we don't understand and if we did would more directly lead to treatment of human diseases. That is not to say we need invest all resources towards this frontier but in the optimal scenario we must weight resource allocation to the potential usefulness of the discovery.
General knowledge is unpredictable. If you want to treat human diseases, explore the natural world, because a huge portion of the pharmacopea we have is in some way directly derived from general knowledge - the taxane family is derived from yew, sometimes when you explore easter island you find rapamycin, penicillin is a very old story of accidental primary research, it goes on and on. And many of the synthetics we have now are adaptations of an older drug with negative side effects to manage the side effects.
Hypothetically, in 100,000 years, if human activity has led to the death of everything not human on this planet and we ourselves are on the brink (effectively leading Earth to go back to square one) would you rather that, or humans end in 50,000 years but through conservation and study made way for other life on this planet that will eventually conquer space and some of the mysteries of the universe.
Obviously the timelines are insane but just as a thought experiment, I would suspect we would get different answers depending on who you ask, and thus the study, understanding and conservation of other life that shows a form of intelligence becomes much more important to some, whilst human preservation at the expense of all else is more important to others.
(I also recognise you aren't saying that by the way, but it's what came to mind when I read your comment. I personally think we have more than enough resources to do both. I'd also imagine we will learn more about ourselves and what's possible in medicine by studying other species.)
I don't think we have to understand the natural world to care about it. But I will go further haha: I think we _already_ prioritize human health and advancement above preserving anything about the natural world (unless we have identified that the preservation is advantageous for our own purposes.) And I reject this anthropocentric view, which is I suppose where we might differ :)
From a purely utilitariatic POV, understanding your environment helps avoiding mistakes that mess it up which then indirectly impacts you too since you depend on your environment. So, more understanding improves policy making.
Second, what people know is often valued more. If you can tell people about the environment then you can create a fascination and make them value their surroundings more, maybe causing them to think twice before dumping trash mindlessly in the forest or voting for the next guy who wants to expand fracking operations. And in order to tell them, you first need to understand it.
Third, it can give you material for creating useful tools or medicine which then improves lives, like vaccines or airplanes (which we wouldn't have without curiosity about birds).
Apart from that, it's empathy too. Animals can suffer and causing them suffering is usually against empathy people feel. More understanding helps with that. (It's not too long ago that the prevailing view of "that's just a fish, they don't feel anything, so I can eat them even though I'm vegetarian" was challenged and slowy overturned.)
And finally, beauty. Nature is just beautiful. Compared to a dead rock like mars, it's absolutely amazing what we have around us.
I hope these five reasons give you some perspective as a biology student.
I wonder, what made you choose that field of study?
Animals feel pain.
Let’s raise them humanely, kill them swiftly, and use they wholly letting nothing go to waste.
This is an entirely reasonable ethic.
"usefulness" being the keyword here. I agree that the investment of resources goes towards the "usefulness" as in, there is a profit to be made here "usefulness" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯