I did this for a while after seeing that video, but after some of my shorts ended up tightening into a knot that I couldn't get loose easily, I gave up on it.
I instead just use the "Ian Knot" that I use to tie my shoes. It's very quick, I already use it all the time anyhow, and it rarely goes wrong. (Sometimes, I think I end up with an end through a loop accidentally, and have to fix it.)
Learning this extra knot didn't really help much, and it definitely went wrong more than I liked.
It really depends on the cordage for this one. I have a pair of gym shorts with a flat, thin band (I think it’s nylon, it’s got some slipperiness to it), and this knot works great for it. I’ve had nothing but problems trying this one on thicker, rounded cordage with more friction involved.
If you have round laces, Ian’s knot reliably comes undone. Ian’s secure shoelace knot is better in that case, though it’s slightly slower and trickier to do. The double Ian knot is interesting too, but it (and several other alternatives) won’t have the “pull just once to untie” mechanic.
Ian's knot doesn't come undone easily if you do it the right way, many people learn it incorrectly when they are young and never revisit it... but they are making Granny knots instead: https://tokay-ultimate.com/blogs/infos/how-to-tie-your-laces
It's even more noticeable/frequent with round laces so that's what makes me suspect you might be a victim of this.
You can read about why Ian made the new knot as an improvement over secure knots specifically here. [0] But hey, maybe Ian was unknowingly tying a Granny knot instead. ;)
Comparison To Other Regular Shoelace Knots
It was much easier to prove that Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot is more secure than any of the regular shoelace knots. Using a pair of shoes with round, slippery laces, I tied one with my Ian Knot and the other with my Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot. Despite tying both to approximately the same average tightness, the Ian Knot came untied two or three times a week whereas the Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot never came untied.
I think for most adults avoiding a granny knot is enough. But my son is not yet 10yo and he often has untied shoes at the end of the day.
I've even tried tying his shoes myself (so I know both the knots are pulled really tight, and that the loose ends are the same length as the bows). Even so, somehow the ends get pulled hard enough that they end up undone.
(Somehow for him even the Ian secure knot doesn't guarantee a full day without laces coming undone.)
Ian's knot is not new kind of knot with its own properties; it's a kind of procedure for producing the standard knot. The resulting knot doesn't remember which procedure it came from.
Sorry, I chose to use the same terminology as the comment I replied to. Should I have started with the explanation you’ve posted, would that make my comment better?
A bit off topic, but I hate that Ian just slapped his name on a knot and people call it that. He even has a little link on there saying "Yes I'm the inventor," which, if you click on it, amounts to "trust me bro." That knot was how my father learned to tie his shoes in the 60s, so Ian must have time-traveled back after "inventing" it in '82.
It never ceases to amaze me how reliably someone always appears to “well, actually” this issue whenever Ian comes up. Despite the fact that he has merely published all this info freely on the web for like 20+ years and never attempted to monopolize knot information, nor force anyone else to acknowledge him in any way. Like, if you want to, you could call it the “Ian Sucks” knot. Why care if he calls it ‘Ian Knot’? If you liked your hotdogs a certain way and you call that an “Arijun Dog,” should people be mad at you if technically it’s a style first prepared 50 years prior in Nashville by a guy named John?
My problem with it isn't what he calls it, it's that he claims to have invented it. It would be fine if he said, "yes, other people have been using this knot for decades, but I like to call it Ian's knot."
Would it bother you if I started re-wrote the Wikipedia article on the hot dog in an attempt to convince everyone I invented it? And if people started believing that?
1. If you rewrote Wikipedia? Yes. If you set up your own website and said you invented the Arijun Dog? Nah, go for it. Slightly embellishing your accomplishments, in a trivial and victimless arena like hotdogs or shoelaces, is exactly the kind of confidence we should all have.
2. He says right at the very top of the article[1] that what he's claiming is his "method," not the knot which he is attributing. A pretty soft and subjective claim, like if I claimed a "method" of making a hotdog which involves singing a particular song while squirting the mustard.
It’s great that he has that caveat, but it’s buried under the “Tech Info” tab. Meanwhile, the header says “yes -- I'm the inventor,” and there is no mention of the knots actual history in the “History” page, only how he “invented” it.
I disagree- when I googled this knot I came immediately to https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknothistory.htm where this “Ian” fellow goes to great lengths to establish himself as the inventor. Screenshot of a davinciesque yellowed inventor’s notebook and so forth.
They shouldn't be mad at you at much as dismiss you. You should admit that sticking to it and trying to make other people acknowledge it is ridiculous, a joke at best.
If you've "invented" some relatively simple combination of existing pieces, the only sensible and humble thing to do is acknowledge that you're probably not the first one.
He surely invented "Ian's Knot" (the term for it). Even if there already existed a knot tied the same way, if people didn't know it by a name, surely there's some benefit to having a name for it?
Ian's Knot is a new procedure for achieving the same configuration as a standard knot or double loop knot. The procedure involves inserting the loops into each other simultaneously. Basically, it is like a reverse unravelling.
When you pull the two string ends of a standard knot at the same time, the loop shrink and pull out of each other at the same time. Just figure out how to do that backwards and you probably have Ian's Knot or something very close.
I find that the Ian Knot almost never comes undone on its own for me. Shoes, shorts, whatever. It's been great for like a decade now. I haven't been motivated to find anything better.
Knots in general are a harmless and occasionally useful pasttime for many people. In fact I have a length of rope under my desk I will occasionally pick up and practice a few useful knots in just to keep them in my muscle memory. It's similar in many ways to people who solve rubix cubes or play with fidget spinners.
And you never know when they'll come in handy! As a negative proof, I recently found myself trying desperately to remember how to tie a bowline hitch to stake down some garden stakes, and something in the "out of the hole, around the tree, back into the hole" was just not happening for me. Ended up just quadruple knotting and praying.
The snap method of tying a bowline is my favourite. In nice rope it looks really fancy and can be done mostly from muscle memory (except remembering to pass the free end through from the backside to avoid a shameful cowboy bowline).
I found myself in a similar situation taking my kids crab fishing. We were quite high above the water so I was trying to tie the thin string on the net to the bucket so we could lower it into the water to fill it. After trying to think of the fancy way of doing it I just went with doubling up the string and tying a round turn and two half hitches, an embarrassingly simple knot which has most of the advantages of anything more complex.
I’ve spent decades learning to enter and exit doors more efficiently for motivated to apply the principle of martial arts ‘flowing movements’ to everything and found this video charming and accurate. In a climate with -20C temps outdoors every wall second you have a door open translates to fractions of a firewood heating log, so teaching good door etiquette conserves energy waste. But even where it’s not an environmental extreme, getting better at your daily movements is a worthwhile investment. At one point I had it down to 29 ‘moves’ to go from my front door to in car, belted and started, in one continuous series of movements. Growing old gracefully doesn’t just mean being nice to people, after all :)
I took the time one year to learn a bunch of knot work and my ability to tie my shoes so they lay nicely has improved, even if I’m just using the same knot. But I also only tie my shoes once and never again, courtesy of elastic laces, so perhaps this specific tutorial isn’t as helpful for me as others. Still worth learning a knot once, tho though!
altairprime says ". But I also only tie my shoes once and never again, courtesy of elastic laces,..."
Hell, I only tie my shoes once a week if that! I must be a effing kung fu fool! Still, watching the video and especially reading the comments really made me laugh!
Honestly, such endeavors are likely excessive. Time spent optimizing your body's movement is probably time better used elsewhere. Nonetheless it is your time! And there's always dance, mime, drama, yoga, etc. And there are exceptions, e.g., in the military there's often a need to do something like "move 20 fully-armed men inside a door in 10 seconds" or "get 15 men to awaken, take their morning constitution and dress in 16 minutes."
My father told me the Marines taught them how to do everything, even wipe their ass. I don't know if that was part of inspection.
I have something even more useless! After fifteen years of trying to catch things when I drop them, I started catching things when I drop them. I’m not less clumsy now, but there’s no better feeling than dropping something, casually grabbing it out of midair with a conserved-motion movement, and then going back to whatever without an annoying interruption. I’m a bad fit for that particular military but, like, they do understand the effects of drilling in habits until they’re reflexive.
Some hobbies are really excellent for generalists, because you can apply the one learning-training method to any number of bizarre or intentional circumstances that life hands you. I’m currently working on ‘select heavier than average apples with a single toss and catch each at the grocery store’ and, no joke, some guy at the store complimented this. I’m sure they were hitting on me but they noticed. Made my day. It’s the hobby that keeps on giving. (I have so far only dropped one apple and, yes, I bought the poor bruised thing.)
Other fun hobbies in the category: Diagnostic guessing, Balancing stuff, Vehicle operation, Packing efficiently (rather than most compactly), Knots (which are critical to textile and bodily repair both), Folding (or as Calvin might call it, dimensional transmogrification), Echolocation mapping (you can practice while sitting in a cafe).
At the core of this is learning how to learn, and then dedicating yourself to doing that somehow, no matter how pointless whatever hooks your attention might seem to others. I figured out at one point how to alter my visual perception frame rate to slow down and stall, just for a moment, a spinning (on high) ceiling fan’s blades. I can never get them to stand perfectly still but insomnia is cruel and the nights are long, and it’s fun to imagine what my brain is doing to brainwave sync rates across my visual cortex to make this work. (If seizure-prone, maybe don’t try this alone.) Unexpectedly, even this has had a practical value: when a passenger in trains or cars, I can consciously relax my eye muscles now and let the landscape motion blur by rather than saccade-focusing constantly. Hooray!
Every useless hobby skill has an unforeseen opportunity to be valuable :)
You could also say life is too short to waste time retying inferior drawstrings. If learning the knot takes 5 minutes, it seems like it could easily save you time overall.
I've been tying shorts for more than 35 years. I can do it with my eyes closed. I can do it while running, or while swimming. I don't need to look down, finagle an end into an ampersand and whatnot. I don't have to worry about grabbing the right loop+end combo to increase or decrease tightness. I just undo the knot, and redo it according to preference.
I'd argue I'm just about as fast adjusting my shorts than this guy in the video.
If it takes 5 minutes to learn, and if you have 30 more years of needing to tie drawstrings, and you need to tie on average one drawstring per week, you will come out ahead if it saves you 0.19 seconds tying or retying per drawstring.
I haven't tied a drawstring or used a belt in maybe 15 years, when I realized it was worth finding clothes that fit well. They're more comfortable and look better.
The Ashley Book of Knots has 3857 numbered entries. Each is suited to specific requirements. Some are just fun or decorative. It can be a hobby to learn more.
Domain people might have a dozen knots to get their job done. I just took a swift water rescue class; we got by with maybe five total for our situation.
I don’t see how this is complicated, it’s simply a technique. The creator of the video has no stated agenda, and it’s on the viewer to decide whether or not they want to learn and apply this method. Lots of people find joy in solving the little things in life that would otherwise cause them frustration. One of the top comments on the video is a nurse saying they’d been tying their scrubs with bunny ears for 30 years and always had to keep adjusting them. Certainly it isn’t overly complicated for them.
The more you know and practice with knots, the definition of “simple” shifts. I stopped using bungee cords in my car since I got really good at lashing stuff down with paracord.
I got through an entire day yesterday in massively oversized gym shorts, by simply forming a standard loop, and wrapping it _twice_. That extra friction (the second wrap) has worked for years on shoes, boots, and, very large shorts
I will not be learning a fancy knot because I have no need
The ampersand method in the OP video (and the sibling slipped-lapp-knot comment) is needlessly complicated. Just follow this super simple animation instead (except pass a bight in the last step to make it quick-release).
The Lapp knot (aka. lapp bend) is my favourite of all the knots and very underrated. It's so versatile and simple, even simpler to tie than a square knot. As shown in the OP, it can be tightened and loosened and explodes when you pull the tag rather than leaving the half-knot behind. It is my default way to tie two ropes together.
It's almost nonintuitive(at least to me) how many ways there are to tie the same knot. I must have watched 15 different snell techniques before I found one that seemed simple enough to remember and actually use with wet hands and slick lines.
Here is how to tie a bow in under 1 second in case anyone wants something that looks a bit cleaner but is less functional: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Q5qZpQe_4EA
The lock lace method (I forget the "official" name) is also a huge game changer for footwear. Especially boots and taller stuff.
You can use it to have looser / tigher "zones" or specific areas and optimise the fit of well fitting shoes and make shoes that dont fit temporarily useable. Also great for hiking when you might want a slightly looser toebox for general use and then tighten everything down when switching to a steep downhill sections.
Also a game changer for snowboard boots and why I prefer traditional laces vs speed laces or boa systems. I can see why they are popular there though - most people wont be using fancier lacing techniques and have two adjustable zones (speed laces) is better than none.
I learned this knot from this video a while back -- I've used it ever since. It cinches the shorts tight, but is easy to release. It works especially well on strings that are slippery and don't hold a typical bow very well.
One drawback is that the two ends often end up different lengths, but otherwise it's a great knot!
Yup.. I only remeber three knots: 1. tie cows to a pole using a rope, tile show laces, third one is the most basic one which everyone knows. Sometimes, I learn a few occassinally watching youtube video and forget the next day.
I screw up the square knot constantly! It's not like I practice but each time I focus, try a few times and then just rage quit and tie 47 half-hitches.
I always remember it as the opposite of what I think is typically called the granny knot. In the case of the square knot, it's just right over left, then left over right.
This knot is not for me. I need my drawstrings to be permanently connected together, or else when I wash those shorts they frequently get pulled into the pants where I can't reach them, and it's a pain to fish them out again. And I can't remember to tie them together before each wash.
I once made a contraption out of the top thread-part of a plastic soda bottle and the lid. Cut a slot down the threads, put your drawstring ends through the bottle end and slot, then tighten the cap to hold everything in place. plastic. survives the wash. Then my Dad suggested sewing the drawstring to the shorts at the midpoint with a few stitches. Much better, you don't have to make and remember to use any contraption.
In recent years I've needed to use a Wash & Fold service, and I've gone through at least 8 of them with acrimonious disputes and really awful service.
The last one was getting all my clothes clean, but they always folded them in the most haphazard ridiculous way; some garments were deliberately turned inside-out, etc. (It was kind of a racist thing, by the workers who were not of the friendly owner family at the front counter. Happens all the time to me.)
Another annoying thing that they did was that anytime a garment had a drawstring, it would end up extracted or completely pulled into the waistband. The front-counter owner lady even pointed this out, rather gleefully, and "apologized" and handed me the disassembled pair of shorts.
In the meantime, I found that a lacquered chopstick was very useful to route the drawstring back through the waistband, along with a pair of tweezers or needlenose pliers, to fish out the end from deep inside there.
Since then, I've switched to a service that is treating me with respect, and the lady is amazingly good at sorting and folding! Yay!
You can find drawstring threaders (bodkins?) on amazon pretty cheaply - if you have clothes with drawstrings it's handy to have one of these around the house.
Gosh I need to learn more about knots. I've been thinking about this recently: if I wanted to maximise utility and could only learn 5 knots, what would they be.
Or alternatively, what are the "better" alternatives to the classics everyone knows.
Knowing common knots is not just useful because they are handy, but they also represent a common toolkit - when sailing with someone, if I see they tie a certain thing with a specific knot, I can do likewise. When I see a knot I recognise, I immediately know how to untie and re-tie it.
Generally the same point about having a common vocabulary in tech work. Sometimes it's about stuff that's obvious to both parties in one way or another - but the name is what ties it together (heh).
The bowline works well in rope that isn't too stiff, but in kernmantle rope it can self-upset, which is why climbers long ago standardized on the double figure-eight loop for tie-in.
The Farrimond Hitch is my favorite knot. Useful to tie a line to another line and have it adjustable, but strong under load and a single pull to undo it. Easy to remember, it's like a prusik knot.
The marlinspike hitch is the best bang-for-your-buck. The author of this video shows it in quite a few of his other videos. Depending on what you do with the tag end, you can quickly collapse it into a bowline for a fixed loop (and subsequently apply any bowline finishing you might like), or you can end up with an Ashley stopper (which provides triple the diameter of the rope, so is an excellent stopper). Using it actually as a marlinspike hitch gives you a really nice handle to pull in tension on a trucker’s hitch. The knot also does not jam, so you can easily pull it out just by completely tightening it. This same property makes it an excellent choice for the loop in a trucker’s hitch… provided you get the directionality right so the force of pulling in tension counteracts its desire to collapse. When you’re done, the loop can just collapse out when you untie it—no dealing with a jammed alpine butterfly.
The bowline has two variants, one being the cowboy version, which has the working bitter end on the outside of the loop, the "normal" bowline will have it on the inside of the loop.
To tie a bowline, make a loop in the working bitter end up about 2x the desired circumference of the loop you want to make. Your line is now segmented into the bitter end, and the standing line section.
Look at the loop. You want to put the bitter end through the same side of the hole where the bitter end overlaps the line/rope on the other side of the loop (standing section). If you use your right hand to twist the loop, and do so clockwise, you will insert the bitter end from the top. If you turn it counter-clockwise, then you will insert it from the bottom.
In this orientation, if you go around behind the right side of the standing part, you will form a normal bowline. If you go around behind on the left, this will form a "cowboy" bowline. Either works, but the cowboy one allows the bitter end to hang loose, which increases the odds of it getting caught up in other lines.
Finish by inserting the bitter end into the same hole from the other direction (obviously).
If you find the knot comes undone, you are putting it through the wrong side of the hole at the start. Just insert it in the other side and this particular problem solves itself. If you are on a boat, other problems may now be selected for attack. :P
When I was young I learned this cool trick to tie a bowline one-handed. Can’t remember who taught it to me but the idea is if you are hanging from a rope by your left hand, you can actually (with a bit of practise that you hopefully do beforehand) tie a loop around yourself with a bowline using your other hand. Moot in my case because there’s no way I could hold my weight using my left hand even if my life depended on it, but it’s a fun trick.
Strongly agreed, and thank you - TIL about the truckee hitch, I've always been using trucker's hitches and now I'm going to go try to reprogram myself.
I'd add a butterfly loop to this list for those times you need to add a tie-in point to the middle of a rope for whatever reason.
There is a reason scouts require you to tie so many knots. Not that any scout remembers their knots longer than needed pass that requirement, but it is still important and once in a while they do need them.
The scouts require a bunch of utterly terrible knots. They include the Granny Knot which you never actually want to tie, only to avoid tying by accident. They include the Sheepshank, which is quite possibly the worst way to shorten a line ever invented. Etc.
And, in my time in scouts, they did a poor job of demonstrating the actual use cases for the knots in a practical manner. If I had seen how many situations knots come in handy for, I'd have memorized them much more intently.
There are (I'd contend) four basic types of knot: Bends, hitches, bindings, and loops. Bends tie two cords together, hitches tie cords to objects, bindings wrap & grip objects together, and loops are loops.
You only really need one bend. I suggest the zeppelin bend, but they're all pretty similar. Hitches can benefit from a bit more variety, but a round-turn with two half-hitches will serve you well in most situations, along with its more secure variant, the anchor hitch. There's a trade-off between how secure a knot is and how easy it is to untie, which is why the less-secure variant is useful.
The best loop is the angler's loop, which will even hold in bungee cord. The alpine butterfly is also good to know because you can tie it "in the bight" (without access to either end of the rope), which is very handy.
Bindings are (I think) the most commonly-used family of knots for most people. Lashing a load into a truck so it won't move, tying a bag shut, and even tying shoes are all situations for bindings. For large loads, I'd suggest a trucker's hitch, which is good for (e.g.) tightly strapping a load into a truck bed, hence the name. For smaller situations, like cinching a bag shut, try the jam hitch—an underappreciated favourite of mine. It works like a zip tie, tightening around an object and not loosening. (Make sure the knot itself is tied tightly before you zip it. After you zip it, you can tie the ends together for extra security.)
If nothing else, learn the round turn & two half hitches, the alpine butterfly, and the trucker's hitch. Some combination of these will serve you well in most situations.
IMO it's important to start with what possible uses of knots there are, and then learn a knot for each use. I'll exclude decorative knots, because those are subjective & very diverse.
Stopper knots prevent rope from passing through a hole & keep the end from unraveling. The Overhand knot is the simplest. The Double Overhand is a very simple addition to an overhand. The Figure-8 is slightly bigger, and useful to know.
Single loop knots create a single fixed loop in a line. The Butterfly (aka Alpine Butterfly) can be tied mid-line (without access to the end) or with the end of a rope, and is two overhand knots interlocked in a particular manner.
A noose is any loop that tightens when a load is applied. I like the Scaffold Knot, it's a double overhand around the standing part of the rope. Its biggest disadvantage is it can be difficult to undo. Any fixed loop can also be made into a noose by tying it around the standing part, forming a "Running <name of fixed loop>".
Bends join the ends of two ropes. The Fisherman's knot (also has lots of other names) is two overhand knots, one with each rope, tied around the standing part of the other rope. It's strong, secure, but difficult to untie. The Double Fisherman's uses double overhands. The Butterfly Bend is a Butterfly tied as a bend, it's strong, secure, and much easier to untie. The Butterfly Bend is tied the same way the Butterfly Loop is when tying with the end.
Hitches tie a rope to a rigid object. They can attach a rope to something where you have access to an end of the object like a bollard, or where you don't like tying into a fixed ring. They can be for lengthwise pulls, or for right-angle pulls. Adjustable loops are hitches tied around the standing part of the rope. For right-angle pull, the scaffold knot works well (again). It can be tied without access to the end of an object, so it works for rings and bollards. For lengthwise pull, the rolling hitch is nice, and the Rolling Hitch Ziptie is a use of the rolling hitch which works as an adjustable loop and a binding knot.
Binding knots hold only when tied around an object. The Double-Slipped Reef Knot is a common shoelace knot. The Turquoise Turtle or "Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot" are different methods of tying a structurally identical resulting knot that's a bit more secure. Worth knowing at least one of these three, or you'll only wear slip-ons or Velcro closure shoes. Also the Rolling Hitch Ziptie is worth knowing.
There are also some systems of knots called "trucker's hitch"es, which are all ways to use loop knots as improvised pulleys with a final hitch to secure a load in place. IMO they're not independent knots. Handy to know at least one sort though in case you don't have ratchet straps or snatch blocks. The Versatackle is nice, self-locking, and tied with just Alpine Butterflies and any hitch.
So, a list of 5:
1: Overhand knot. 2: Butterfly loop (mid-line). 3: Butterfly loop (with the end). 3 (used differently): Running Butterfly. 3 (used differently): Butterfly bend. 4: Scaffold knot. 5: Rolling Hitch. 5 (used differently): Rolling Hitch Ziptie. 5 (used differently): two opposed Rolling Hitches for tying your shoelaces together works, with difficulty. 2+5: Versatackle trucker's hitch formed from two Butterfly loops and a Rolling Hitch.
All except the Rolling Hitch are based on the Overhand knot. If you're willing to add a sixth knot, pick something better to tie your shoes.
I've spent waaay to much time thinking about this over the past few years and have really gotten into knots.
Personally I'd say you need to classify the type of knots you want to learn and pick one knot from each. The classics in my opinion are
1. End loop
2. Mid loop
3. Hitch (opposite of an end loop)
4. adjustable loop
5. Bend (rope to rope)
My suggestions in order are
# End Loop
1a. Bowline (snap variant) - This is a knot that's super easy to tie, remember, and untie. There are a bunch of variants to expand it's usefulness (double, water, slip, yosemite, etc)
1b. Zeppelin Loop - this is my personal favorite, it's a little tricky to tie but I've never seen it slip and it unties easily after it's all done.
# Mid Loop
2a. Alpine Butterfly - learn the butterfly method and this is an easy to tie knot that can be easily sized. It also doesn't bind so it unties easily and can be loaded in any direction (on of the only midline knots this is true for)
2b. Bowline on a Bight - Super satisfying knot to tie, a little wonky to learn just because of the structure but easy to tie once you get it.
# Hitch
3a. Tensionless Hitch - (this is probably the most overlooked 'knot' just look at a diagram you can learn it and never forget it after seeing the diagram once. It's the strongest knot there is if you have the rope for it. (I wouldn't really count this at one of your 5 but it's good to keep in mind)
3b. Buntline Hitch - dead simple and you can usually untie it after a heavy load
3c. Siberian Hitch - This is effectively a slipped noose but I use it all the time, it's my personal go to.
3c. Poachers knot - If you have a carabiner or know you're never going to need to untie this knot it's hard to beat
# Adjustable Loop / Friction Hitch
4a. Adjustable Grip Hitch - Easy to learn and holds better than the Midshipman's
4b. Midshipman - it's a little more complicated but this was Ashley's favorite because it can be tied under tension
# Bend
(Bends and fixed loops usually have the same structure so you might not need this one)
5a. Zeppelin Bend - seriously just learn this one, sixty nine method is the easiest for me. Knot is easy to tie, doesn't slip, and is easy to untie.
5b. Sheet Bend - this knot... is fine but you already know it if you learned the bowline above as it's the same structure
Bonus Section
1. Trucker/Truckee - probably one of the most useful knots around, learn the method that uses a slip knot for the mid loop and it'll make even easier
2. Canadian Jam Knot - Useful for bundling things, it's a knot I find myself using a lot
3. Voodoo Hitch - You can use it in place of a ratchet strap if you have a couple of carabiners
4. Icicle Hitch - Ever wanted to tie a rope to a butter metal pole and keep it from slipping? This is the knot, it cinches and grips things with so much friction you can tie a rope to about anything vaguely cylindrical
An aficionado! Have you heard of the jam hitch (ABOK #1727)? Grossly underdiscussed IMO—I only discovered it earlier this year. It tightens like a zip tie, and (in kitchen twine at least) I've found the string will snap before the loop slips open again. It's quickly become my most-used knot, day to day. I like to tie it with the second turn inside the first (like #1855 as opposed to #1856).
O that's really interesting, I've been using a constructor knot for this use case, but that does require more string than this method. Really clever reversal of a midshipmens knot
This is similar to how traditional Afghan pants are tied. For those who have seen then, the first time putting them on can be a shock. Because when fully extended out, the waist is like 75-100 inches around, you'd think there was a mistake but that's how they come. You tie the drawstring like this so you can pull that waist all the way in comfortably and it lets the pants be very airy, comfortable, and cool.
As long as you switch directions when tying a bunny ears knot, it will stay tied. I do left over/right under for the first step and then left under/right over for the second step. The ears/loops should sit balanced and not lopsided. I use the same knot to tie my shoes.
I love how new people keep discovering Ian's website (cf the xkcd 1053). It's a really well made website, the pictures and animations are very well chosen to explain knots and lacing.
I favor a technique I was taught by a nursing student almost 30 years ago. You basically use the usual technique but each time the lace crosses another do it one extra time.
So first you wrap one lace around the other and pull it tight, well before you pull it tight wrap it around one more time. This helps hold the laces tight for the next step where you fold the laces and wrap them around each other. Do that a second time as well before you pull it fully tight.
Without video or illustration I suspect this is not easy to follow. Oh well.
Just by the headline I suspected this was first class amateur. So many great videos.
That being said, use cord locks, not knots. You can often shorten the drawstring, and you will never lose one end into the waist.
So the hack is to stab the knot? I'm gonna need a video on how to open a drawer to retrieve the fork first....
Real knot untying hack - hit it with a hammer, or otherwise smash it. It will undo itself enough that you can then do whatever is most obvious, like using a thin piece of metal.
I’ve been giving this a try, and aside from Porky Pigging it through my kitchen this morning, it seems to have real promise. The rip cord isn’t a feature I value, though.
Flag rope knots are low key stressful. You only need to do them once every 5-10 years or so, so you don't really develop any expertise through practice. If you do it wrong, you probably have to pay or arrange for a team of two people to lower the flagpole.
The flag rope for our 12 meter flagpole broke. I seriously debated getting a drone to replace it in situ. Then I realized hauling just a few hundred grams of rope needs a fairly serious drone.
These "pull the loop over" kinda knots are delightfully simple, and shockingly secure. The Palomar fishing knot is somewhat similar, and is one of my go-to ones when I need to tie a hook quickly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWw_f7CQQLg
My favorite knot for a drawstring is a sliding type knot. Can't remember the name but it's like a prusik or hitch knot. It stays tight, but you can easily slide it to tighten or loosen it, and you don't need to ever re-tie it.
I just go under and over one more time in the initial step of tying a traditional "shoelace" knot. That gives a little more friction on the initial tightening draw to keep it in place, then just finish it as normal.
I've tried alternatives, but in the end keeping it simple is what I prefer.
I found that if I make it tight enough so that things don't loosen easily when there's tension, then it's too tight to adjust easily. Maybe there's a happy medium to be had, but through numerous tries, I never achieved it.
A few years back I got a couple of Adidas running shorts. Instead of the typical drawstring they had some continuous string. To this day I've no idea how it was supposed to be used, I just cut it off and voila, a regular drawstring.
You can tie the same knots without cutting the string. Just grab the two sides, pull them snug, then tie the knot. The fact that the “free ends” are connected at a distance doesn’t prevent the knot from holding like usual.
The advantage of the continuous loop is that it can’t end up inside the waistband during laundry.
Once I had a pair of the continuous loop sweats, I turned all my sweats into the same. My drawstrings always seem to end up getting retracted into the pants.
The selling point of this knot is the adjustability (pull on the loop to relieve the clamping tension to adjust size) but I suspect that mechanism also makes it less secure than the standard knot.
Very interesting, I've seen these various knot videos and seems really cool. Some even do it with one hand. Pretty sure I'm going to be trying this one though
Ever since I was a scout in the 90s I've been considering how to get in contact with them about discouraging use of the square knot.
The way that loading it crosswise causes it to shift into a double half hitch, turning from a "hold fast" knot to a slipknot... That's funky behavior and should disqualify it from being among the first few knots people learn. If you're using it for its advertised purpose, it's downright dangerous, and the square/granny confusion is just needless pain to discourage a newbie.
If you wanna tie two ropes together and have a less finicky experience, use a fisherman's knot. Which is basically a pair of overhands, each around the other rope.
It's a much more reliable knot for trying two ropes together, lacks the annoying gotchas of the square knot, and for a long list of reasons I won't bore you with here it is a better foundation for learning other knots. (It's no good for drawstrings though, too reliable, no quick release).
The reef knot (square knot in Scouts lingo) is a good binding knot. It's a terrible bend. Scouts teach it as a bend, for some idiotic reason.
Reefing a sail or tying a parcel,
a reef knot the role will fulfill.
But joining two ends one should only use bends,
And a reef knot's a sure way to kill.
⸻Stuart Grainger, ex-Master Mariner, 1985. Referenced from "The Complete Book of Knots" by Geoffrey Budworth.
Oh good find. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who has had this thought.
But since modern sailboats don't require knots for reefing, and modern parcels don't require tying, I think the use cases for a square knot are now pretty narrow.
Some times I use them to finish off some lashing because they can be easily tied while keeping tension, but that's about it. It's just not qualified for to be the first knot we teach a tenderfoot.
The double-slipped reef knot is a pretty nice shoelace knot. I prefer a more secure variant (a different tying method of the Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot/Turquoise Turtle that's a bit easier for me), but pretty much every kid should learn the double-slipped reef first. Scouts should already know it before they join!
I have learned so many complex things in my life but I can’t for the life of me seem to be able to learn knots. There was a period I had a rope on my desk I would practice them for a couple of months everyday. It’s been maybe 5 years since then and I can’t remember a single one.
Same thing with solving a rubics cube. I spent 3 months getting pretty good at it, like I could consistently solve them in under 15 secs. That was two years ago. I picked up a cube two months ago and tried to solve it and couldn’t remember even the first step. I had an app I used to set up, solve and track the cube and I logged 10,000+ solves and I can’t remember how to do it less than 2 years later. Sigh.
just start with a double square knot (or whatever the first step is called) and pull it tight before starting the bow. it won't move while you tie the bow, and it's so much easier than this. if you have particularly slippery substrate, start with a triple instead
A reef knot (or square knot) cannot be adjusted or tied under load. When you tie the second crossing, the first one always loosens a bit. The lapp knot in the video can be tensioned properly after tying, which is pretty slick.
I did this for a while after seeing that video, but after some of my shorts ended up tightening into a knot that I couldn't get loose easily, I gave up on it.
I instead just use the "Ian Knot" that I use to tie my shoes. It's very quick, I already use it all the time anyhow, and it rarely goes wrong. (Sometimes, I think I end up with an end through a loop accidentally, and have to fix it.)
Learning this extra knot didn't really help much, and it definitely went wrong more than I liked.
It really depends on the cordage for this one. I have a pair of gym shorts with a flat, thin band (I think it’s nylon, it’s got some slipperiness to it), and this knot works great for it. I’ve had nothing but problems trying this one on thicker, rounded cordage with more friction involved.
My results were the exact opposite with the two different types of cordage. This is definitely a finicky knot.
If you have round laces, Ian’s knot reliably comes undone. Ian’s secure shoelace knot is better in that case, though it’s slightly slower and trickier to do. The double Ian knot is interesting too, but it (and several other alternatives) won’t have the “pull just once to untie” mechanic.
Ian's knot doesn't come undone easily if you do it the right way, many people learn it incorrectly when they are young and never revisit it... but they are making Granny knots instead: https://tokay-ultimate.com/blogs/infos/how-to-tie-your-laces
It's even more noticeable/frequent with round laces so that's what makes me suspect you might be a victim of this.
You can read about why Ian made the new knot as an improvement over secure knots specifically here. [0] But hey, maybe Ian was unknowingly tying a Granny knot instead. ;)
https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknottech.htmIan's Knot V3_FINAL_2_R1.2.
I think for most adults avoiding a granny knot is enough. But my son is not yet 10yo and he often has untied shoes at the end of the day.
I've even tried tying his shoes myself (so I know both the knots are pulled really tight, and that the loose ends are the same length as the bows). Even so, somehow the ends get pulled hard enough that they end up undone.
(Somehow for him even the Ian secure knot doesn't guarantee a full day without laces coming undone.)
Ian's knot is not new kind of knot with its own properties; it's a kind of procedure for producing the standard knot. The resulting knot doesn't remember which procedure it came from.
Sorry, I chose to use the same terminology as the comment I replied to. Should I have started with the explanation you’ve posted, would that make my comment better?
Ian Knots is a rabbit hole of great practical knots and shoe lacing styles.
couldn't find the ian knot on this app.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nynix.knot...
It's here: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm
You just pull the loose string end to relieve the knot? The loop just pulls out.
I think he means that if you ever accidentally tie the knot wrong, then it can end up difficult to untie.
I don't think I tied it wrong. I think it eventually just tightened up with usage and got really hard to work with.
A bit off topic, but I hate that Ian just slapped his name on a knot and people call it that. He even has a little link on there saying "Yes I'm the inventor," which, if you click on it, amounts to "trust me bro." That knot was how my father learned to tie his shoes in the 60s, so Ian must have time-traveled back after "inventing" it in '82.
It never ceases to amaze me how reliably someone always appears to “well, actually” this issue whenever Ian comes up. Despite the fact that he has merely published all this info freely on the web for like 20+ years and never attempted to monopolize knot information, nor force anyone else to acknowledge him in any way. Like, if you want to, you could call it the “Ian Sucks” knot. Why care if he calls it ‘Ian Knot’? If you liked your hotdogs a certain way and you call that an “Arijun Dog,” should people be mad at you if technically it’s a style first prepared 50 years prior in Nashville by a guy named John?
My problem with it isn't what he calls it, it's that he claims to have invented it. It would be fine if he said, "yes, other people have been using this knot for decades, but I like to call it Ian's knot."
Would it bother you if I started re-wrote the Wikipedia article on the hot dog in an attempt to convince everyone I invented it? And if people started believing that?
1. If you rewrote Wikipedia? Yes. If you set up your own website and said you invented the Arijun Dog? Nah, go for it. Slightly embellishing your accomplishments, in a trivial and victimless arena like hotdogs or shoelaces, is exactly the kind of confidence we should all have.
2. He says right at the very top of the article[1] that what he's claiming is his "method," not the knot which he is attributing. A pretty soft and subjective claim, like if I claimed a "method" of making a hotdog which involves singing a particular song while squirting the mustard.
[1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknottech.htm
I read that exact preface on his site before learning and adopting it (the secure knot, specifically, but the preface is on both).
https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknottech.htm
It’s great that he has that caveat, but it’s buried under the “Tech Info” tab. Meanwhile, the header says “yes -- I'm the inventor,” and there is no mention of the knots actual history in the “History” page, only how he “invented” it.
I disagree- when I googled this knot I came immediately to https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknothistory.htm where this “Ian” fellow goes to great lengths to establish himself as the inventor. Screenshot of a davinciesque yellowed inventor’s notebook and so forth.
They shouldn't be mad at you at much as dismiss you. You should admit that sticking to it and trying to make other people acknowledge it is ridiculous, a joke at best.
If you've "invented" some relatively simple combination of existing pieces, the only sensible and humble thing to do is acknowledge that you're probably not the first one.
Am I missing something here where he "tries to make" anyone do anything? Also he mentions the Ashley knot numbers, how is that not acknowledging that?
What do you think of the medical doctor Dr Tai that "invented" calculus in 1994 and called it Tai's Model?
He surely invented "Ian's Knot" (the term for it). Even if there already existed a knot tied the same way, if people didn't know it by a name, surely there's some benefit to having a name for it?
Ian's Knot is a new procedure for achieving the same configuration as a standard knot or double loop knot. The procedure involves inserting the loops into each other simultaneously. Basically, it is like a reverse unravelling.
When you pull the two string ends of a standard knot at the same time, the loop shrink and pull out of each other at the same time. Just figure out how to do that backwards and you probably have Ian's Knot or something very close.
I could see there being use for putting a name for it if there wasn't one before. You can do that without pretending you invented it, though.
If there's not a name for it though, how do you find out? Also, you can invent something without being the first.
not the ian secure knot?
I find that the Ian Knot almost never comes undone on its own for me. Shoes, shorts, whatever. It's been great for like a decade now. I haven't been motivated to find anything better.
Reminds me of the granny knot "advice" which I also saw on hackernews for the first time many years ago and which changed my live:
https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm
If you don't know about this problem yet, I strongly recommend to cross check if you have been tying it wrong for years!
And you’ve just payed it forward by changing my life in turn. Thanks for sharing!
Life is too short to make simple things more complicated.
Knots in general are a harmless and occasionally useful pasttime for many people. In fact I have a length of rope under my desk I will occasionally pick up and practice a few useful knots in just to keep them in my muscle memory. It's similar in many ways to people who solve rubix cubes or play with fidget spinners.
And you never know when they'll come in handy! As a negative proof, I recently found myself trying desperately to remember how to tie a bowline hitch to stake down some garden stakes, and something in the "out of the hole, around the tree, back into the hole" was just not happening for me. Ended up just quadruple knotting and praying.
The snap method of tying a bowline is my favourite. In nice rope it looks really fancy and can be done mostly from muscle memory (except remembering to pass the free end through from the backside to avoid a shameful cowboy bowline).
I found myself in a similar situation taking my kids crab fishing. We were quite high above the water so I was trying to tie the thin string on the net to the bucket so we could lower it into the water to fill it. After trying to think of the fancy way of doing it I just went with doubling up the string and tying a round turn and two half hitches, an embarrassingly simple knot which has most of the advantages of anything more complex.
If you can’t tie a knot, tie a lot
It somehow reminded me of this: (How to open a door - Finnish instructional video from 1979) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wof0xPUmW38
I’ve spent decades learning to enter and exit doors more efficiently for motivated to apply the principle of martial arts ‘flowing movements’ to everything and found this video charming and accurate. In a climate with -20C temps outdoors every wall second you have a door open translates to fractions of a firewood heating log, so teaching good door etiquette conserves energy waste. But even where it’s not an environmental extreme, getting better at your daily movements is a worthwhile investment. At one point I had it down to 29 ‘moves’ to go from my front door to in car, belted and started, in one continuous series of movements. Growing old gracefully doesn’t just mean being nice to people, after all :)
I took the time one year to learn a bunch of knot work and my ability to tie my shoes so they lay nicely has improved, even if I’m just using the same knot. But I also only tie my shoes once and never again, courtesy of elastic laces, so perhaps this specific tutorial isn’t as helpful for me as others. Still worth learning a knot once, tho though!
Also think this is an underrated way to live. And it doesnt just have to be for efficiency sake. Taking even some beginner dance classes is helpful.
I like to call it "moving with intention" in my head. Proactive movement rather than Reactive.
Smooth is fast and fast is good - but there's nothing wrong with smooth and slow as well!
altairprime says ". But I also only tie my shoes once and never again, courtesy of elastic laces,..."
Hell, I only tie my shoes once a week if that! I must be a effing kung fu fool! Still, watching the video and especially reading the comments really made me laugh!
Honestly, such endeavors are likely excessive. Time spent optimizing your body's movement is probably time better used elsewhere. Nonetheless it is your time! And there's always dance, mime, drama, yoga, etc. And there are exceptions, e.g., in the military there's often a need to do something like "move 20 fully-armed men inside a door in 10 seconds" or "get 15 men to awaken, take their morning constitution and dress in 16 minutes."
My father told me the Marines taught them how to do everything, even wipe their ass. I don't know if that was part of inspection.
I have something even more useless! After fifteen years of trying to catch things when I drop them, I started catching things when I drop them. I’m not less clumsy now, but there’s no better feeling than dropping something, casually grabbing it out of midair with a conserved-motion movement, and then going back to whatever without an annoying interruption. I’m a bad fit for that particular military but, like, they do understand the effects of drilling in habits until they’re reflexive.
Some hobbies are really excellent for generalists, because you can apply the one learning-training method to any number of bizarre or intentional circumstances that life hands you. I’m currently working on ‘select heavier than average apples with a single toss and catch each at the grocery store’ and, no joke, some guy at the store complimented this. I’m sure they were hitting on me but they noticed. Made my day. It’s the hobby that keeps on giving. (I have so far only dropped one apple and, yes, I bought the poor bruised thing.)
Other fun hobbies in the category: Diagnostic guessing, Balancing stuff, Vehicle operation, Packing efficiently (rather than most compactly), Knots (which are critical to textile and bodily repair both), Folding (or as Calvin might call it, dimensional transmogrification), Echolocation mapping (you can practice while sitting in a cafe).
At the core of this is learning how to learn, and then dedicating yourself to doing that somehow, no matter how pointless whatever hooks your attention might seem to others. I figured out at one point how to alter my visual perception frame rate to slow down and stall, just for a moment, a spinning (on high) ceiling fan’s blades. I can never get them to stand perfectly still but insomnia is cruel and the nights are long, and it’s fun to imagine what my brain is doing to brainwave sync rates across my visual cortex to make this work. (If seizure-prone, maybe don’t try this alone.) Unexpectedly, even this has had a practical value: when a passenger in trains or cars, I can consciously relax my eye muscles now and let the landscape motion blur by rather than saccade-focusing constantly. Hooray!
Every useless hobby skill has an unforeseen opportunity to be valuable :)
That tutorial has opened up many doors for me
You will never know if it was his moustache, his clothes or the way he enters a room that made him so successful with women.
You could also say life is too short to waste time retying inferior drawstrings. If learning the knot takes 5 minutes, it seems like it could easily save you time overall.
I've been tying shorts for more than 35 years. I can do it with my eyes closed. I can do it while running, or while swimming. I don't need to look down, finagle an end into an ampersand and whatnot. I don't have to worry about grabbing the right loop+end combo to increase or decrease tightness. I just undo the knot, and redo it according to preference.
I'd argue I'm just about as fast adjusting my shorts than this guy in the video.
If you're spending that much time tying drawstrings I think you've got bigger problems.
If it takes 5 minutes to learn, and if you have 30 more years of needing to tie drawstrings, and you need to tie on average one drawstring per week, you will come out ahead if it saves you 0.19 seconds tying or retying per drawstring.
Ah, but are you remembering to discount the future time saving, to get the net present value of the time savings?
Maybe he's a "back-door man"!
I was looking for the comic and found this:
https://xkcd.com/1205/
(I swear there was a better one)
This one perhaps? https://xkcd.com/1319/
Why not just buy clothes that fit properly?
I haven't tied a drawstring or used a belt in maybe 15 years, when I realized it was worth finding clothes that fit well. They're more comfortable and look better.
The Ashley Book of Knots has 3857 numbered entries. Each is suited to specific requirements. Some are just fun or decorative. It can be a hobby to learn more.
Domain people might have a dozen knots to get their job done. I just took a swift water rescue class; we got by with maybe five total for our situation.
Tying shorts? Maybe two or three are best suited.
I think if you occasionally tie gym shorts and don't have needs around fit, this is correct.
But if you're a nurse and wear scrubs all the time, then it might become worth spending time upfront perfecting it.
I don’t see how this is complicated, it’s simply a technique. The creator of the video has no stated agenda, and it’s on the viewer to decide whether or not they want to learn and apply this method. Lots of people find joy in solving the little things in life that would otherwise cause them frustration. One of the top comments on the video is a nurse saying they’d been tying their scrubs with bunny ears for 30 years and always had to keep adjusting them. Certainly it isn’t overly complicated for them.
The more you know and practice with knots, the definition of “simple” shifts. I stopped using bungee cords in my car since I got really good at lashing stuff down with paracord.
I got through an entire day yesterday in massively oversized gym shorts, by simply forming a standard loop, and wrapping it _twice_. That extra friction (the second wrap) has worked for years on shoes, boots, and, very large shorts
I will not be learning a fancy knot because I have no need
The difference is the Ian Loop is adjustable.
What needs adjusting? My waist size is not dynamic.
You will....knot ?
This a hundred times. Smart by half.
You should be on a beach without internet connection then.
That requires money. (GOTO makeMoney)
Eh, knots are a source of joy.
Min-max all the things! Overengineer everything!
/s
Per the video description, this is a Lapp Knot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapp_knot, sadly not animated by Grog.
Here’s an animated version: https://knots3d.com/en/lapp-knot
I think you meant to link https://knots3d.com/en/slipped-lapp-knot It's even labeled as a gym shorts knot.
This.
The ampersand method in the OP video (and the sibling slipped-lapp-knot comment) is needlessly complicated. Just follow this super simple animation instead (except pass a bight in the last step to make it quick-release).
The Lapp knot (aka. lapp bend) is my favourite of all the knots and very underrated. It's so versatile and simple, even simpler to tie than a square knot. As shown in the OP, it can be tightened and loosened and explodes when you pull the tag rather than leaving the half-knot behind. It is my default way to tie two ropes together.
It's almost nonintuitive(at least to me) how many ways there are to tie the same knot. I must have watched 15 different snell techniques before I found one that seemed simple enough to remember and actually use with wet hands and slick lines.
Thanks, I was thinking "that looks a lot like a slipped sheet-bend," but could tell that something wasn't quite right.
Super cool!
Here is how to tie a bow in under 1 second in case anyone wants something that looks a bit cleaner but is less functional: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Q5qZpQe_4EA
Hard to tell if that's the same as the Ian Knot: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm
I've learned the Ian Knot almost 10 years ago and it still gives me a good smile when I use it every day. Feels like a proper life-hack.
I also cannot help myself but look down at people that don't use it, shoelace normies.
The lock lace method (I forget the "official" name) is also a huge game changer for footwear. Especially boots and taller stuff.
You can use it to have looser / tigher "zones" or specific areas and optimise the fit of well fitting shoes and make shoes that dont fit temporarily useable. Also great for hiking when you might want a slightly looser toebox for general use and then tighten everything down when switching to a steep downhill sections.
Also a game changer for snowboard boots and why I prefer traditional laces vs speed laces or boa systems. I can see why they are popular there though - most people wont be using fancier lacing techniques and have two adjustable zones (speed laces) is better than none.
Thanks for sharing. That's an awesome site!
I think its the same Knot. I really like Ian's Secure Knot too: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
I've become a huge fan of the secure knot. Holds easily as well as any double knot I have ever seen, with the massive advantage of easy release.
First thing I thought when I saw it being tied.
"Hey, that's the Ian Knot!"
I learned this knot from this video a while back -- I've used it ever since. It cinches the shorts tight, but is easy to release. It works especially well on strings that are slippery and don't hold a typical bow very well.
One drawback is that the two ends often end up different lengths, but otherwise it's a great knot!
Only knot I know and I use it frequently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowline
Knots are incredibly situational which makes learning a lot of them (through practice) difficult.
Yup.. I only remeber three knots: 1. tie cows to a pole using a rope, tile show laces, third one is the most basic one which everyone knows. Sometimes, I learn a few occassinally watching youtube video and forget the next day.
Bowline is inappropriate for anything that you need to apply tension to while tying (like your gym shorts).
That is correct and I really need to learn at least one tension knot.
This one and the square knot are indispensable
I screw up the square knot constantly! It's not like I practice but each time I focus, try a few times and then just rage quit and tie 47 half-hitches.
I always remember it as the opposite of what I think is typically called the granny knot. In the case of the square knot, it's just right over left, then left over right.
This knot is not for me. I need my drawstrings to be permanently connected together, or else when I wash those shorts they frequently get pulled into the pants where I can't reach them, and it's a pain to fish them out again. And I can't remember to tie them together before each wash.
I once made a contraption out of the top thread-part of a plastic soda bottle and the lid. Cut a slot down the threads, put your drawstring ends through the bottle end and slot, then tighten the cap to hold everything in place. plastic. survives the wash. Then my Dad suggested sewing the drawstring to the shorts at the midpoint with a few stitches. Much better, you don't have to make and remember to use any contraption.
I've had sweatpants with a continuous drawstring, this is the knot I use to tighten them
https://youtube.com/shorts/1I9_Zxypg1s
I tie knots at the ends of my drawstrings to prevent them (mostly) from retracting
In recent years I've needed to use a Wash & Fold service, and I've gone through at least 8 of them with acrimonious disputes and really awful service.
The last one was getting all my clothes clean, but they always folded them in the most haphazard ridiculous way; some garments were deliberately turned inside-out, etc. (It was kind of a racist thing, by the workers who were not of the friendly owner family at the front counter. Happens all the time to me.)
Another annoying thing that they did was that anytime a garment had a drawstring, it would end up extracted or completely pulled into the waistband. The front-counter owner lady even pointed this out, rather gleefully, and "apologized" and handed me the disassembled pair of shorts.
In the meantime, I found that a lacquered chopstick was very useful to route the drawstring back through the waistband, along with a pair of tweezers or needlenose pliers, to fish out the end from deep inside there.
Since then, I've switched to a service that is treating me with respect, and the lady is amazingly good at sorting and folding! Yay!
You can find drawstring threaders (bodkins?) on amazon pretty cheaply - if you have clothes with drawstrings it's handy to have one of these around the house.
You can get an inexpensive drawstring tool off AliExpress.
Gosh I need to learn more about knots. I've been thinking about this recently: if I wanted to maximise utility and could only learn 5 knots, what would they be.
Or alternatively, what are the "better" alternatives to the classics everyone knows.
Depends what you're doing.
My favourite knot is the bowline. Non-slip loop, very strong, easy to tie, easy to undo. Can be used for tying two ropes together, ropes to things.
Other useful ones (especially for sailing)
* Clove hitch * Reef knot * Rolling hitch * Sheet bend
Knowing common knots is not just useful because they are handy, but they also represent a common toolkit - when sailing with someone, if I see they tie a certain thing with a specific knot, I can do likewise. When I see a knot I recognise, I immediately know how to untie and re-tie it.
Generally the same point about having a common vocabulary in tech work. Sometimes it's about stuff that's obvious to both parties in one way or another - but the name is what ties it together (heh).
I overuse the bowline. Never seizes, and it can be tied with one hand around your body (or anything else) very quickly.
I think that method was originally taught to me in scouts as an emergency body lift thing, though it would not actually be ideal for that.
The bowline works well in rope that isn't too stiff, but in kernmantle rope it can self-upset, which is why climbers long ago standardized on the double figure-eight loop for tie-in.
Tying a bowline is one of my fidgets. Also famously has a part in Jaws (1975), though not mentioned by name. ("Hey! I got it!")
I’d add tautline hitch, great to have an adjustable-but-holds-well knot to the repertoire!
Taut line is great, but I'm finding the Farrimond friction hitch is much more secure, and is already on a bite for quick release as an added bonus.
The bowline is great because you can tie it one handed.
And figure 8 retrace, a staple climbing knot
I used to use that a lot, but now would favour bowline, for ease of tying and untying. Less beginner-friendly, though.
Bowline isn't great for safety-critical applications, especially when not under constant load.
The Farrimond Hitch is my favorite knot. Useful to tie a line to another line and have it adjustable, but strong under load and a single pull to undo it. Easy to remember, it's like a prusik knot.
https://www.animatedknots.com/farrimond-friction-hitch-knot
(overhand and double 8 are probably used more often by me, but not that versatile)
The marlinspike hitch is the best bang-for-your-buck. The author of this video shows it in quite a few of his other videos. Depending on what you do with the tag end, you can quickly collapse it into a bowline for a fixed loop (and subsequently apply any bowline finishing you might like), or you can end up with an Ashley stopper (which provides triple the diameter of the rope, so is an excellent stopper). Using it actually as a marlinspike hitch gives you a really nice handle to pull in tension on a trucker’s hitch. The knot also does not jam, so you can easily pull it out just by completely tightening it. This same property makes it an excellent choice for the loop in a trucker’s hitch… provided you get the directionality right so the force of pulling in tension counteracts its desire to collapse. When you’re done, the loop can just collapse out when you untie it—no dealing with a jammed alpine butterfly.
Bowline, truckee’s hitch (the better alternative to a truckers hitch), prussick come to mind
The bowline has two variants, one being the cowboy version, which has the working bitter end on the outside of the loop, the "normal" bowline will have it on the inside of the loop.
To tie a bowline, make a loop in the working bitter end up about 2x the desired circumference of the loop you want to make. Your line is now segmented into the bitter end, and the standing line section.
Look at the loop. You want to put the bitter end through the same side of the hole where the bitter end overlaps the line/rope on the other side of the loop (standing section). If you use your right hand to twist the loop, and do so clockwise, you will insert the bitter end from the top. If you turn it counter-clockwise, then you will insert it from the bottom.
In this orientation, if you go around behind the right side of the standing part, you will form a normal bowline. If you go around behind on the left, this will form a "cowboy" bowline. Either works, but the cowboy one allows the bitter end to hang loose, which increases the odds of it getting caught up in other lines.
Finish by inserting the bitter end into the same hole from the other direction (obviously).
If you find the knot comes undone, you are putting it through the wrong side of the hole at the start. Just insert it in the other side and this particular problem solves itself. If you are on a boat, other problems may now be selected for attack. :P
When I was young I learned this cool trick to tie a bowline one-handed. Can’t remember who taught it to me but the idea is if you are hanging from a rope by your left hand, you can actually (with a bit of practise that you hopefully do beforehand) tie a loop around yourself with a bowline using your other hand. Moot in my case because there’s no way I could hold my weight using my left hand even if my life depended on it, but it’s a fun trick.
https://youtu.be/tHVjMWTPx-A?is=dftRVkzz67Il1I-Q
Strongly agreed, and thank you - TIL about the truckee hitch, I've always been using trucker's hitches and now I'm going to go try to reprogram myself.
I'd add a butterfly loop to this list for those times you need to add a tie-in point to the middle of a rope for whatever reason.
Buntline hitch is my personal favorite. Works well with synthetic line.
Love this "auto" truckers hitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J8MuOWO0Qs
Edit: Same knot, with an explanation before showing what I knew as the classic trucker hitch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKM5gaYJWN0
Super useful knot for when you don't have a ratchet tie-down. Learned and used this knot all the time hauling around dirt bikes.
There is a reason scouts require you to tie so many knots. Not that any scout remembers their knots longer than needed pass that requirement, but it is still important and once in a while they do need them.
The scouts require a bunch of utterly terrible knots. They include the Granny Knot which you never actually want to tie, only to avoid tying by accident. They include the Sheepshank, which is quite possibly the worst way to shorten a line ever invented. Etc.
And, in my time in scouts, they did a poor job of demonstrating the actual use cases for the knots in a practical manner. If I had seen how many situations knots come in handy for, I'd have memorized them much more intently.
There are (I'd contend) four basic types of knot: Bends, hitches, bindings, and loops. Bends tie two cords together, hitches tie cords to objects, bindings wrap & grip objects together, and loops are loops.
You only really need one bend. I suggest the zeppelin bend, but they're all pretty similar. Hitches can benefit from a bit more variety, but a round-turn with two half-hitches will serve you well in most situations, along with its more secure variant, the anchor hitch. There's a trade-off between how secure a knot is and how easy it is to untie, which is why the less-secure variant is useful.
The best loop is the angler's loop, which will even hold in bungee cord. The alpine butterfly is also good to know because you can tie it "in the bight" (without access to either end of the rope), which is very handy.
Bindings are (I think) the most commonly-used family of knots for most people. Lashing a load into a truck so it won't move, tying a bag shut, and even tying shoes are all situations for bindings. For large loads, I'd suggest a trucker's hitch, which is good for (e.g.) tightly strapping a load into a truck bed, hence the name. For smaller situations, like cinching a bag shut, try the jam hitch—an underappreciated favourite of mine. It works like a zip tie, tightening around an object and not loosening. (Make sure the knot itself is tied tightly before you zip it. After you zip it, you can tie the ends together for extra security.)
Zeppelin bend: https://www.animatedknots.com/zeppelin-bend-knot
Anchor hitch: https://www.animatedknots.com/anchor-hitch-knot; round turn & two half-hitches: https://www.animatedknots.com/round-turn-two-half-hitches-kn...
Angler's loop (sometimes called "perfection loop"): https://www.animatedknots.com/perfection-loop-knot; alpine butterfly: https://www.animatedknots.com/alpine-butterfly-loop-knot.
Trucker's hitch (feat. alpine butterfly): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o3BcaoPXK5Q; jam hitch (aka "rolling hitch zip tie" or "reverse midshipman's hitch"): https://www.reddit.com/r/knots/comments/12vsuk1/how_to_tie_a.... (Though these have "hitch" in the name, I'd argue they're better described as bindings, because they preserve tension.)
If nothing else, learn the round turn & two half hitches, the alpine butterfly, and the trucker's hitch. Some combination of these will serve you well in most situations.
One final tip, while I'm talking about knots. You may be tying your shoelaces wrong: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm.
IMO it's important to start with what possible uses of knots there are, and then learn a knot for each use. I'll exclude decorative knots, because those are subjective & very diverse.
Stopper knots prevent rope from passing through a hole & keep the end from unraveling. The Overhand knot is the simplest. The Double Overhand is a very simple addition to an overhand. The Figure-8 is slightly bigger, and useful to know.
Single loop knots create a single fixed loop in a line. The Butterfly (aka Alpine Butterfly) can be tied mid-line (without access to the end) or with the end of a rope, and is two overhand knots interlocked in a particular manner.
A noose is any loop that tightens when a load is applied. I like the Scaffold Knot, it's a double overhand around the standing part of the rope. Its biggest disadvantage is it can be difficult to undo. Any fixed loop can also be made into a noose by tying it around the standing part, forming a "Running <name of fixed loop>".
Bends join the ends of two ropes. The Fisherman's knot (also has lots of other names) is two overhand knots, one with each rope, tied around the standing part of the other rope. It's strong, secure, but difficult to untie. The Double Fisherman's uses double overhands. The Butterfly Bend is a Butterfly tied as a bend, it's strong, secure, and much easier to untie. The Butterfly Bend is tied the same way the Butterfly Loop is when tying with the end.
Hitches tie a rope to a rigid object. They can attach a rope to something where you have access to an end of the object like a bollard, or where you don't like tying into a fixed ring. They can be for lengthwise pulls, or for right-angle pulls. Adjustable loops are hitches tied around the standing part of the rope. For right-angle pull, the scaffold knot works well (again). It can be tied without access to the end of an object, so it works for rings and bollards. For lengthwise pull, the rolling hitch is nice, and the Rolling Hitch Ziptie is a use of the rolling hitch which works as an adjustable loop and a binding knot.
Binding knots hold only when tied around an object. The Double-Slipped Reef Knot is a common shoelace knot. The Turquoise Turtle or "Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot" are different methods of tying a structurally identical resulting knot that's a bit more secure. Worth knowing at least one of these three, or you'll only wear slip-ons or Velcro closure shoes. Also the Rolling Hitch Ziptie is worth knowing.
There are also some systems of knots called "trucker's hitch"es, which are all ways to use loop knots as improvised pulleys with a final hitch to secure a load in place. IMO they're not independent knots. Handy to know at least one sort though in case you don't have ratchet straps or snatch blocks. The Versatackle is nice, self-locking, and tied with just Alpine Butterflies and any hitch.
So, a list of 5:
1: Overhand knot. 2: Butterfly loop (mid-line). 3: Butterfly loop (with the end). 3 (used differently): Running Butterfly. 3 (used differently): Butterfly bend. 4: Scaffold knot. 5: Rolling Hitch. 5 (used differently): Rolling Hitch Ziptie. 5 (used differently): two opposed Rolling Hitches for tying your shoelaces together works, with difficulty. 2+5: Versatackle trucker's hitch formed from two Butterfly loops and a Rolling Hitch.
All except the Rolling Hitch are based on the Overhand knot. If you're willing to add a sixth knot, pick something better to tie your shoes.
I've spent waaay to much time thinking about this over the past few years and have really gotten into knots.
Personally I'd say you need to classify the type of knots you want to learn and pick one knot from each. The classics in my opinion are
1. End loop
2. Mid loop
3. Hitch (opposite of an end loop)
4. adjustable loop
5. Bend (rope to rope)
My suggestions in order are
# End Loop
1a. Bowline (snap variant) - This is a knot that's super easy to tie, remember, and untie. There are a bunch of variants to expand it's usefulness (double, water, slip, yosemite, etc)
1b. Zeppelin Loop - this is my personal favorite, it's a little tricky to tie but I've never seen it slip and it unties easily after it's all done.
# Mid Loop
2a. Alpine Butterfly - learn the butterfly method and this is an easy to tie knot that can be easily sized. It also doesn't bind so it unties easily and can be loaded in any direction (on of the only midline knots this is true for)
2b. Bowline on a Bight - Super satisfying knot to tie, a little wonky to learn just because of the structure but easy to tie once you get it.
# Hitch
3a. Tensionless Hitch - (this is probably the most overlooked 'knot' just look at a diagram you can learn it and never forget it after seeing the diagram once. It's the strongest knot there is if you have the rope for it. (I wouldn't really count this at one of your 5 but it's good to keep in mind)
3b. Buntline Hitch - dead simple and you can usually untie it after a heavy load 3c. Siberian Hitch - This is effectively a slipped noose but I use it all the time, it's my personal go to.
3c. Poachers knot - If you have a carabiner or know you're never going to need to untie this knot it's hard to beat
# Adjustable Loop / Friction Hitch
4a. Adjustable Grip Hitch - Easy to learn and holds better than the Midshipman's
4b. Midshipman - it's a little more complicated but this was Ashley's favorite because it can be tied under tension
# Bend
(Bends and fixed loops usually have the same structure so you might not need this one)
5a. Zeppelin Bend - seriously just learn this one, sixty nine method is the easiest for me. Knot is easy to tie, doesn't slip, and is easy to untie.
5b. Sheet Bend - this knot... is fine but you already know it if you learned the bowline above as it's the same structure
Bonus Section
1. Trucker/Truckee - probably one of the most useful knots around, learn the method that uses a slip knot for the mid loop and it'll make even easier
2. Canadian Jam Knot - Useful for bundling things, it's a knot I find myself using a lot
3. Voodoo Hitch - You can use it in place of a ratchet strap if you have a couple of carabiners
4. Icicle Hitch - Ever wanted to tie a rope to a butter metal pole and keep it from slipping? This is the knot, it cinches and grips things with so much friction you can tie a rope to about anything vaguely cylindrical
An aficionado! Have you heard of the jam hitch (ABOK #1727)? Grossly underdiscussed IMO—I only discovered it earlier this year. It tightens like a zip tie, and (in kitchen twine at least) I've found the string will snap before the loop slips open again. It's quickly become my most-used knot, day to day. I like to tie it with the second turn inside the first (like #1855 as opposed to #1856).
https://www.reddit.com/r/knots/comments/12vsuk1/how_to_tie_a...
O that's really interesting, I've been using a constructor knot for this use case, but that does require more string than this method. Really clever reversal of a midshipmens knot
This is similar to how traditional Afghan pants are tied. For those who have seen then, the first time putting them on can be a shock. Because when fully extended out, the waist is like 75-100 inches around, you'd think there was a mistake but that's how they come. You tie the drawstring like this so you can pull that waist all the way in comfortably and it lets the pants be very airy, comfortable, and cool.
As long as you switch directions when tying a bunny ears knot, it will stay tied. I do left over/right under for the first step and then left under/right over for the second step. The ears/loops should sit balanced and not lopsided. I use the same knot to tie my shoes.
Amazing, I love learning about knots! Is there a better shoelace knot? Not faster, but better
Yes, there is my friend. https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
I've learned it a month ago and couldn't be happier.
I love how new people keep discovering Ian's website (cf the xkcd 1053). It's a really well made website, the pictures and animations are very well chosen to explain knots and lacing.
I favor a technique I was taught by a nursing student almost 30 years ago. You basically use the usual technique but each time the lace crosses another do it one extra time.
So first you wrap one lace around the other and pull it tight, well before you pull it tight wrap it around one more time. This helps hold the laces tight for the next step where you fold the laces and wrap them around each other. Do that a second time as well before you pull it fully tight.
Without video or illustration I suspect this is not easy to follow. Oh well.
Yep: one extra rotation at the end, like when you are tying the loops together, go around a second time. Never comes undone, but releases easily.
Just by the headline I suspected this was first class amateur. So many great videos. That being said, use cord locks, not knots. You can often shorten the drawstring, and you will never lose one end into the waist.
Leave them on in the wash?
Do they end up breaking every couple years?
Hack to untie a knot using an ordinary fork:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YCBD8l7Sg3M
So the hack is to stab the knot? I'm gonna need a video on how to open a drawer to retrieve the fork first....
Real knot untying hack - hit it with a hammer, or otherwise smash it. It will undo itself enough that you can then do whatever is most obvious, like using a thin piece of metal.
What are the likelihoods of having a fork nearby vs. a hammer? [asking for a friend]
I’ve been giving this a try, and aside from Porky Pigging it through my kitchen this morning, it seems to have real promise. The rip cord isn’t a feature I value, though.
Flag rope knots are low key stressful. You only need to do them once every 5-10 years or so, so you don't really develop any expertise through practice. If you do it wrong, you probably have to pay or arrange for a team of two people to lower the flagpole.
The flag rope for our 12 meter flagpole broke. I seriously debated getting a drone to replace it in situ. Then I realized hauling just a few hundred grams of rope needs a fairly serious drone.
These "pull the loop over" kinda knots are delightfully simple, and shockingly secure. The Palomar fishing knot is somewhat similar, and is one of my go-to ones when I need to tie a hook quickly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWw_f7CQQLg
My favorite knot for a drawstring is a sliding type knot. Can't remember the name but it's like a prusik or hitch knot. It stays tight, but you can easily slide it to tighten or loosen it, and you don't need to ever re-tie it.
I just go under and over one more time in the initial step of tying a traditional "shoelace" knot. That gives a little more friction on the initial tightening draw to keep it in place, then just finish it as normal.
I've tried alternatives, but in the end keeping it simple is what I prefer.
I tried several drawstrings.
I found that if I make it tight enough so that things don't loosen easily when there's tension, then it's too tight to adjust easily. Maybe there's a happy medium to be had, but through numerous tries, I never achieved it.
A few years back I got a couple of Adidas running shorts. Instead of the typical drawstring they had some continuous string. To this day I've no idea how it was supposed to be used, I just cut it off and voila, a regular drawstring.
You can tie the same knots without cutting the string. Just grab the two sides, pull them snug, then tie the knot. The fact that the “free ends” are connected at a distance doesn’t prevent the knot from holding like usual.
The advantage of the continuous loop is that it can’t end up inside the waistband during laundry.
Once I had a pair of the continuous loop sweats, I turned all my sweats into the same. My drawstrings always seem to end up getting retracted into the pants.
Like this https://youtube.com/shorts/1I9_Zxypg1s
https://youtube.com/shorts/1I9_Zxypg1s
Here's an adjustable knot for if you've got a continuous drawstring like on a hat or sweatpants
The selling point of this knot is the adjustability (pull on the loop to relieve the clamping tension to adjust size) but I suspect that mechanism also makes it less secure than the standard knot.
Funny, I just went seeking this video again last week
He published an addendum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbTYCHPLWLI
Very interesting, I've seen these various knot videos and seems really cool. Some even do it with one hand. Pretty sure I'm going to be trying this one though
From a knot theorist: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yZuWPjnF6k0
Looks like the Ian Knot, seen on hackernews everywhere.
It took a few minutes to get the hang of, but it does work very nicely! Being able to adjust length without any re-tying is a great feature
The knot of called a "sheet bend". Great for connecting two different sized ropes as well.
99% of all loose ties are due to people doing a granny knot instead of a square knot.
Doesn't seem to work very well with flat strings it seems (or I suck at knotting).
Or the way most drawstrings are now: a loop and not two loose ends.
Sorry to spam the comments with this link but it seems like a common problem
https://youtube.com/shorts/1I9_Zxypg1s
I lived several decades knowing only the standard set of knots (square, granny) that every six-year-old knows.
Recently, due to Scouts, learned more and I can't believe how often I use them.
... and... this knot is new to me. I'm stoked to add it to the brainbox. Way to go, OP!Ever since I was a scout in the 90s I've been considering how to get in contact with them about discouraging use of the square knot.
The way that loading it crosswise causes it to shift into a double half hitch, turning from a "hold fast" knot to a slipknot... That's funky behavior and should disqualify it from being among the first few knots people learn. If you're using it for its advertised purpose, it's downright dangerous, and the square/granny confusion is just needless pain to discourage a newbie.
If you wanna tie two ropes together and have a less finicky experience, use a fisherman's knot. Which is basically a pair of overhands, each around the other rope.
It's a much more reliable knot for trying two ropes together, lacks the annoying gotchas of the square knot, and for a long list of reasons I won't bore you with here it is a better foundation for learning other knots. (It's no good for drawstrings though, too reliable, no quick release).
The reef knot (square knot in Scouts lingo) is a good binding knot. It's a terrible bend. Scouts teach it as a bend, for some idiotic reason.
Reefing a sail or tying a parcel, a reef knot the role will fulfill. But joining two ends one should only use bends, And a reef knot's a sure way to kill.
⸻Stuart Grainger, ex-Master Mariner, 1985. Referenced from "The Complete Book of Knots" by Geoffrey Budworth.
Oh good find. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who has had this thought.
But since modern sailboats don't require knots for reefing, and modern parcels don't require tying, I think the use cases for a square knot are now pretty narrow.
Some times I use them to finish off some lashing because they can be easily tied while keeping tension, but that's about it. It's just not qualified for to be the first knot we teach a tenderfoot.
The double-slipped reef knot is a pretty nice shoelace knot. I prefer a more secure variant (a different tying method of the Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot/Turquoise Turtle that's a bit easier for me), but pretty much every kid should learn the double-slipped reef first. Scouts should already know it before they join!
Oh touche. Never been a fan of shoelaces myself but that's a good point.
[dead]
Life’s too short. Double cross is the only knot you need.
This is up there with opening a banana by pinching the other end
Tightens well but I end up with a weird super long dangly side
I have learned so many complex things in my life but I can’t for the life of me seem to be able to learn knots. There was a period I had a rope on my desk I would practice them for a couple of months everyday. It’s been maybe 5 years since then and I can’t remember a single one.
Same thing with solving a rubics cube. I spent 3 months getting pretty good at it, like I could consistently solve them in under 15 secs. That was two years ago. I picked up a cube two months ago and tried to solve it and couldn’t remember even the first step. I had an app I used to set up, solve and track the cube and I logged 10,000+ solves and I can’t remember how to do it less than 2 years later. Sigh.
Isn't that just a slipped sheet bend?
Does this also work for full length pants?
just start with a double square knot (or whatever the first step is called) and pull it tight before starting the bow. it won't move while you tie the bow, and it's so much easier than this. if you have particularly slippery substrate, start with a triple instead
A reef knot (or square knot) cannot be adjusted or tied under load. When you tie the second crossing, the first one always loosens a bit. The lapp knot in the video can be tensioned properly after tying, which is pretty slick.
hn really is more reddit-like with each passing day.
That's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills
If you have to tie your gym shorts, they're the wrong size.
It's amazing the things you learn here..
Agreed! Even better, this is a knot I need.
It looks like you really fucked up tying you shorts though. Don't mind me, I dum dum
Interesting...
haha...not bad. Nice try
HN is reading my thoughts again with this one