Watching TV/Movies through any device is a bother, I have to sift through all the advertisements/brand placements for that device to find anything, and most of the time it's the same 20 movies repeated over and over in every section.
Reading on a E-device is a bother, I have to sift through all the "sponsored" books and whatever other crap the ebook reader company decides to add, and be at the whims of whatever they decide they want to do with "your" device that day.
Cell-phones are a bother, they are just devices optimized for stealing your attention, money, information, or all the above.
Pretty much everything tech related anymore is a bother.
I would love to see someone come out with services for music, movies, books that are just APIs you subscribe to and can use any client you want. Think of the novelty of having an interface where you could ignore movies you never want to see, only show the music genres you care about, and not have advertisements for romance novels on your e-reader.
For me, reading is an escape; from both reality as well as technology. I stare at a screen all fucking day; the last thing I want to do is stare at one during my downtime.
So; I cordon off time every day to read and not touch my devices. Even though I subscribe to streaming music, I prefer to read while listening to vinyl. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with anyone choosing to read ebooks or do audiobooks; they're just not my preferred way to do it.
That’s not what the person I was replying to was complaining about. I don’t know why you put this unrelated (and perfectly valid btw) opinion as a response to me.
This is why I have 50TB of HDD space and a plex server. We tried watching a show on Amazon Prime and it was brutal, so many commercials. My wife skipped backward because we missed a part and were too close to the ad break so it made us watch a second 1:30 reel of unskippable ads. We subscribe to Prime and I still downloaded it. I’m not going to let them boil this frog.
That's why I got an e-reader. So I'm not reading books on a phone that's distracting me all the time. I don't know what e-reader you got, but on mine I just press the power button and it brings me right into the book I was reading, no ads or distractions.
> I would love to see someone come out with services for music, movies, books that are just APIs you subscribe to and can use any client you want.
It won't happen because the one thing more important than money is control.
In the 1990s, the recording industry choose to leave money on the table rather than allow digital music to risk their gatekeeping power. It took years for Apple to bully the MPAA into allowing digital distribution.
Reading plain EPUBs on whatever device has been a fairly good experience in my opinion, given that that is more or less just going to be the physical book in digital form. Then again, the only way I think people actually find those are through free online downloads and not any actual store front.
Given the choice between 'tainted digital experience' and 'plain analogue experience', I can't blame consumers for choosing the latter, but the 'plain digital experience' does exist. It's just not sold.
I wonder how long it's going to take before the analogue experience becomes tainted. It's, sadly, not unthinkable to put ads in books. I guess there's little point from the perspective of the relevant people if they can't make those ads personalised, but maybe if the enshittification goes far enough, it could happen.
In my opinion, it’s important to support those publishers and stores that do choose to sell unencumbered media, so that they have some justification to keep doing it.
> Then again, the only way I think people actually find those are through free online downloads and not any actual store front.
Mostly correct, but some publishers have seen the light.
Asimov's magazine used to be on kindle subscriptions, then on some dubious application no one had heard of, but now they offer drm-free epubs, for example.
> I have to sift through all the advertisements/brand placements for that device to find anything, and most of the time it's the same 20 movies repeated over and over
That's our new norm too. We still subscribe to a number of streaming services - but we count on piracy to get the experience that we pay for.
CheapCharts is really nice. I find discovery in the Apple TV store pretty bad otherwise. They earn their affiliate revenue.
I do wish we had DRM-free purchases like we have with MP3s. But this is a big step up over streaming services. The Movies Anywhere integration is handy as well.
> I would love to see someone come out with services for music, movies, books that are just APIs you subscribe to and can use any client you want. Think of the novelty of having an interface where you could ignore movies you never want to see, only show the music genres you care about, and not have advertisements for romance novels on your e-reader.
This exists, but it's not a VC-backed product or public company because the money to be made comes from all the "bother" you identified.
I cannot relate to this experience at all. I can open up the TV app on my phone/tablet/laptop/TV and watch almost whatever I want pretty quickly, without ad breaks. It is far more convenient than the old set top box situation. I would say I wait a maximum of 60 seconds, and probably 30 seconds most of the time, to start watching what must be a considerably large portion of all professionally produced media in the US.
How do you do that without ads? Every single service has ads, even on paid tiers. And sponsored content that is recommended regardless of my actual tastes.
This is the reason I buy physical media, rip it to my home server and use Plex. No suggested bullshit. No ads at all.
How do you do that with paid services? What does your setup look like? Because I can't figure out how to do that using commercial products.
Obviously, product placement ads cannot be avoided.
The ads at the beginning of a show can be skipped pretty easily.
I can mentally ignore sponsored content, but you are right that it is an ad that. I almost never browse though, and just use the search function.
Apple tv+, Amazon prime with the extra $5 per month or whatever, and peacock’s higher tier paid through Apple don’t have ads breaks in the middle of the media for me. Neither did Max when I had it a couple years ago.
Other shows or seasons that are rented with a lifetime license from apple (what they call “buying”) don’t have ad breaks either.
"Reading on a E-device is a bother, I have to sift through all the "sponsored" books and whatever other crap the ebook reader company decides to add, and be at the whims of whatever they decide they want to do with "your" device that day."
My fellow, you are on Hacker News. Think like a hacker, not a consumer.
Plenty of savvy e-book customers here don't have the experience you just described. Look up how to put KOReader ( https://koreader.rocks ) on your current device, and learn how to get your books without DRM. Your e-reading experience will be so much better.
I sort of get your point but I feel like its also a bit curmudgeon-y. In order to have the movies, shows, whatever, it has to be paid for somehow. Also, I think there is something to be said for discovering things. If you just have an API, what is the interface then? Is it like millions bespoke vibe-coded clients? That sounds like a bother too. How do you know in advance if a movie is something you want to see? I guess Dario or Altman can decide for us but what if they become a bother?
> Pretty much everything tech related anymore is a bother.
They have been optimizing for enshittification and they became really good at it. I have no idea how to get rid of these business practices. Users just leaving those abusive platforms clearly doesn't work.
You can solve all the problems you describe; it just takes some setup.
>Watching TV/Movies through any device is a bother, I have to sift through all the advertisements/brand placements for that device to find anything, and most of the time it's the same 20 movies repeated over and over in every section.
Pirate streaming sites[1] are more convenient, have fewer ads, and offer more selection than commercial streaming; they are much less reliable than the following options, however. Torrents have no ads, highest quality, and the largest selection, but you have to download each file manually. Good for preservation, less convenient. Stremio[2]+Torrentio[3]+Debrid[4] allow no ads, highest quality, a large selection, and streaming. This is my preferred option—this is the Spotify of movies and TV.
>Reading on a E-device is a bother, I have to sift through all the "sponsored" books and whatever other crap the ebook reader company decides to add, and be at the whims of whatever they decide they want to do with "your" device that day.
Kindle jailbreak[5] + KoReader[6] + Z-library[7] extension allow you to seamlessly download any book you'd like, directly on your Kindle. No ads, no Amazon connections, and your subsidized device[8].
>Cell-phones are a bother, they are just devices optimized for stealing your attention, money, information, or all the above.
GrapheneOS[9] comes with zero Google services or telemetry by default, and without stock bloatware or notification spam, combined with robust permissions, it goes a long way toward making your phone feel like a tool. I recommend Olauncher[10] for a distraction-free home screen.
>Pretty much everything tech related anymore is a bother.
I feel you. All of this takes effort and knowledge that people shouldn't have to acquire just to have a decent experience with their own devices. But these options exist, they are getting better, and the more people adopt them, the less leverage companies have to keep enshittifying.
Physical books are irreplaceable to me. I love the feel, the smell, and having a house full of them. Just went to a library sale this morning and got even more.
I also really need a break from screens, and reading a book is a great excuse to not be on my phone or watching tv.
Reading a book is also relaxing in a way that reading on a screen is not. It just feels more, I don't know, laid back? I have no idea how to describe that.
I read about two dozen books a year, the majority as audiobooks, most of the rest as ebooks, and typically one or two in print. I quite like print books, but favor ebooks for the minimal size and weight. I prefer ebooks to audiobooks too, but have far more opportunities to listen to an audiobook than to sit down and read an ebook.
Even though print books are by far the minority of my reading, I still purchase print copies of books I enjoy, for discoverability. I’ve loved reading since childhood because I grew up in a house filled to bursting with my parents’ books. Nobody told me to read Tolkien, or Heinlein, or Verne, or Jack London, or Greek mythology—I simply took those books off the shelf and read them. And when we visited friends and family, I would read books from their shelves too. None of my young relatives have access to my ebook or audiobook history, and I’m not going to hammer my own interests into their heads… but I’m lucky enough to have lots of space, so I keep my bookshelves overflowing.
We honestly need a new term for listening to an audiobook. But the best part of audiobooks is that you can listen while doing other tasks so they free up many hours a day vs sitting and reading.
I moved to paper after years of reading digitally. I find it easier to stay engaged because a book has only one purpose while my iPad Mini also has Instapaper and the internet. It’s also much easier to pick up and keep reading, and the book itself is a progress indicator.
I also love sharing paper books with friends. It’s a little experience that ebooks don’t give you.
It's probably been well over a decade since the last time I read a book, maybe two. Maybe it's an ADHD thing? but my retention and immersion is just so so so much deeper when I listen to audiobooks, even at 1.6x-2x (depending on the narrator) I feel like I'm transported in a way that reading physically just doesn't give me.
It’s the complete disregard of typesetting in ebooks that has always repelled me. I fundamentally reject the notion that all books can be reduced to text files. Design matters!
I only read works consisting purely of prose on ebooks, mostly fiction. They are rubbish for text books for at least a couple of reasons:
1. The typesetting, as you point out. Books are carefully typeset for the size of the pages they are printed on. Screens are going to be completely the wrong size/shape for most things,
2. Seek speed. Seeking to a point in an ebook is excruciating. A real book is by far the best format for quickly seeking to a place or seeking backwards and forwards between multiple pages. I can also open two books at once and seek between them using only my eyes.
The problem with printed books is issues suffered by the visually impaired. It's not an issue solely with font size; printed books have no dark mode. If you're a digital nomad, weight is an issue as well.
If it helps, the bright white pages yellow with age.
It'd be nice if dark mode caught on as an option. https://darkeditionbooks.com/ tries, but it looks like they don't have much more than works in the public domain.
I used to work in that field and procured braille media for visually impaired people. In the US state that I live in, light-weight print-to-order braille books are free for qualified low vision students, especially in an education setting. Unfortunately, in most other states free braille media may not be true. On the bright side, thanks to the power of AI, blindness may be a thing of the past, even for people that have chronic blindness. That would be one area with AI can benefit people if used correctly.
I’m surprised to see digital books are still growing in popularity. I notice way few Kindles in airports and on planes in recent years compared to ten or fifteen years ago.
I guess people are reading books on their phones and tablets?
I always buy the paper copies of the books (though I wait for a used version that’s between five and eight dollars) and I will use the paper version if I’m reading on a nice day outside but 75% of my reading happens on my phone and I find I can read much faster on the phone because one, I don’t have to deal with the intricacies of holding the book and the pages open and the second biggest factor is the iPhone screen is much smaller so you don’t really have to move your eyes all that much to get through the content and this leads to much faster reading speeds for me. I can easily get up to 600 words per minute on my iPhone.
There are downsides to both formats, but with paper there's no company keeping track of the date/time I open the books on my selves, or how often I open them, or how long I spend on each page, or how long I take to read the whole thing. I also don't have to worry about the books on my shelves being remotely and silently censored or edited. I don't have to worry about ads being inserted into them and I can freely read them and sell/loan them to others long after they've been banned.
The be fair the parent said "almost." I see this more as a backup of the physical book. Other than search, the experience of physical books is superior, I think, for most people for most uses. You can come up with counterexamples like certain aspects of studying textbooks, etc., but I think this is true in general.
Can most people get physical books? Ebooks are made freely accessible by projects like Anna's Archive. An ebook can be more easily used as a printing source, can be more easily cited in research, and can be better preserved.
The one advantage of physical books is the reading experience itself, but even that is debatable. A Kindle lets you adjust brightness, change fonts—there are fonts that help dyslexic people, for example—and it's lighter than books. Did I mention dark mode?
First, let me step on my own foot for the sake of accuracy: people retain information slightly better when they read paper than screens, so textbooks definitely aren't an example I'd go with. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8715975/
That said, I can come up with far more than a few counterexamples for why ebooks are good, besides combustability:
- Paper books are dense. This adds difficulty to moving and maintaining large collections.
- Paper books take up space. Bookstores and libraries must necessarily remove books to make space for new ones. With ebooks, there's basically no need to remove old ones.
- Paper books are dense and take up space, so when travelling, the reader must carefully select one or two to carry. With ebooks, I can carry my entire ebook library in my pocket.
- Paper books require more effort to duplicate. My e-library is replicated across many devices, including two different offsites. If I spill sauce on a paper book, I need to buy another copy (assuming it's still available).
- Paper books have accessibility issues. As I get older and my vision deteriorates, I will need specialized optical hardware to read small print. On my e-reader, I can just turn up the font size.
In spite of all this, I would never say that ebooks are objectively superior; both are good. I just take issue with all of the people who assume that physical books are so obviously inherently superior, without ever saying why. (See your own post for example.)
I buy "licenses" to read DRM'd ebooks all the time. Even though I disagree with DRM, I still want to reward the author/editor/illustrator/translator/etc for their artistry.
As for whether I leave the books in their DRM'd state or not? No comment :)
I thought this too for a long time. But I have since raised my estimate of the harms of DRM, and lowered my estimate of how much entertainment these artifacts provide. There is enough to read now without putting up with abusive relationships.
I just bought 'Psychology and Life' sixteenth edition and pondered just how much worse an ebook version of it would have been or unbearably clunky a pdf version would be as well.
On top of all the extremely valid points about the ad-driven cognitive friction inherent to modern device usage: print books can’t get yoinked off my shelf because a rich person with political connections wants that.
With respect, this is just propaganda. That is not about banning books, that is about keep certain kinds of books out of school libraries. School libraries already kept other classes of books. This reminds of when Gavin Newsome or Pink tried to claim conservatives states banned "To Kill a Mocking Bird," which was not only untrue but it was the case that in their foolishness, they did not realize California banned the book, if anything.
I used to browse bookstores all the time in the past, but there are fewer and fewer physical bookstores around. Malls have been closing down for the longest time. Even when books were available, the prices were extremely high. I'm excluding school textbooks prices which are and always remain ultrahigh. If prices were more reasonable, I would think that more people would opt for physical books.
I read for information and online communication. I mostly consume books via audiobooks which are awesome when combined with good bluetooth earbuds and a local server like Audiobookshelf. Audiobooks are great because I can multitask by listening when I am walking, biking, lifting, driving, or shopping. I've listened to every Discworld novel and the entire Malazan series. I would never had actually sat down and read the malazan series.
Physical books are great. No ads, no battery to charge, no worry the content is going to be censored because somebody somewhere decides they don't like what they say. No worry they're going to be removed from my shelf. I can lend them to whomever I want. I can mark them up. The book in its current form is perfect. We don't really need to change it.
And then there's the whole experience of going into a bookstore and just looking around. It's wonderful. One of the last things our society has yet to fuck up.
Watching TV/Movies through any device is a bother, I have to sift through all the advertisements/brand placements for that device to find anything, and most of the time it's the same 20 movies repeated over and over in every section.
Reading on a E-device is a bother, I have to sift through all the "sponsored" books and whatever other crap the ebook reader company decides to add, and be at the whims of whatever they decide they want to do with "your" device that day.
Cell-phones are a bother, they are just devices optimized for stealing your attention, money, information, or all the above.
Pretty much everything tech related anymore is a bother.
I would love to see someone come out with services for music, movies, books that are just APIs you subscribe to and can use any client you want. Think of the novelty of having an interface where you could ignore movies you never want to see, only show the music genres you care about, and not have advertisements for romance novels on your e-reader.
> Reading on a E-device is a bother, I have to sift through all the "sponsored" books and whatever other crap the ebook reader company decides to add
Sounds like you just chose the wrong device. My Boox does none of this. I just put the epub file in the device and read it.
For me, reading is an escape; from both reality as well as technology. I stare at a screen all fucking day; the last thing I want to do is stare at one during my downtime.
So; I cordon off time every day to read and not touch my devices. Even though I subscribe to streaming music, I prefer to read while listening to vinyl. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with anyone choosing to read ebooks or do audiobooks; they're just not my preferred way to do it.
That’s not what the person I was replying to was complaining about. I don’t know why you put this unrelated (and perfectly valid btw) opinion as a response to me.
I dunno either. Probably because I was sleepy and clicked the wrong reply link. Carry on kind person. :-)
Same with Kobo.
This is why I have 50TB of HDD space and a plex server. We tried watching a show on Amazon Prime and it was brutal, so many commercials. My wife skipped backward because we missed a part and were too close to the ad break so it made us watch a second 1:30 reel of unskippable ads. We subscribe to Prime and I still downloaded it. I’m not going to let them boil this frog.
That's why I got an e-reader. So I'm not reading books on a phone that's distracting me all the time. I don't know what e-reader you got, but on mine I just press the power button and it brings me right into the book I was reading, no ads or distractions.
> I would love to see someone come out with services for music, movies, books that are just APIs you subscribe to and can use any client you want.
It won't happen because the one thing more important than money is control.
In the 1990s, the recording industry choose to leave money on the table rather than allow digital music to risk their gatekeeping power. It took years for Apple to bully the MPAA into allowing digital distribution.
Reading plain EPUBs on whatever device has been a fairly good experience in my opinion, given that that is more or less just going to be the physical book in digital form. Then again, the only way I think people actually find those are through free online downloads and not any actual store front.
Given the choice between 'tainted digital experience' and 'plain analogue experience', I can't blame consumers for choosing the latter, but the 'plain digital experience' does exist. It's just not sold.
I wonder how long it's going to take before the analogue experience becomes tainted. It's, sadly, not unthinkable to put ads in books. I guess there's little point from the perspective of the relevant people if they can't make those ads personalised, but maybe if the enshittification goes far enough, it could happen.
> the only way I think people actually find those are through free online downloads and not any actual store front.
The other day I commented about my DRM‐free ebook sources: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47684550
In my opinion, it’s important to support those publishers and stores that do choose to sell unencumbered media, so that they have some justification to keep doing it.
One more to add to your list: baen.com, home of publisher Baen books. Lots of sci-fi and fantasy, all DRM free if you buy direct from them.
> Then again, the only way I think people actually find those are through free online downloads and not any actual store front.
Mostly correct, but some publishers have seen the light.
Asimov's magazine used to be on kindle subscriptions, then on some dubious application no one had heard of, but now they offer drm-free epubs, for example.
That was a thing already, in the 1960s and 1970s lots of pulp paperbacks had ads for cigarettes and cheap cologne between chapters, for example.
Thanks. I hate it.
> I have to sift through all the advertisements/brand placements for that device to find anything, and most of the time it's the same 20 movies repeated over and over
That's our new norm too. We still subscribe to a number of streaming services - but we count on piracy to get the experience that we pay for.
CheapCharts + iTunes Store + Apple TV (non-subscription) = zero ads and offline viewing.
CheapCharts is really nice. I find discovery in the Apple TV store pretty bad otherwise. They earn their affiliate revenue.
I do wish we had DRM-free purchases like we have with MP3s. But this is a big step up over streaming services. The Movies Anywhere integration is handy as well.
> I would love to see someone come out with services for music, movies, books that are just APIs you subscribe to and can use any client you want. Think of the novelty of having an interface where you could ignore movies you never want to see, only show the music genres you care about, and not have advertisements for romance novels on your e-reader.
This exists, but it's not a VC-backed product or public company because the money to be made comes from all the "bother" you identified.
I cannot relate to this experience at all. I can open up the TV app on my phone/tablet/laptop/TV and watch almost whatever I want pretty quickly, without ad breaks. It is far more convenient than the old set top box situation. I would say I wait a maximum of 60 seconds, and probably 30 seconds most of the time, to start watching what must be a considerably large portion of all professionally produced media in the US.
How do you do that without ads? Every single service has ads, even on paid tiers. And sponsored content that is recommended regardless of my actual tastes.
This is the reason I buy physical media, rip it to my home server and use Plex. No suggested bullshit. No ads at all.
How do you do that with paid services? What does your setup look like? Because I can't figure out how to do that using commercial products.
Obviously, product placement ads cannot be avoided.
The ads at the beginning of a show can be skipped pretty easily.
I can mentally ignore sponsored content, but you are right that it is an ad that. I almost never browse though, and just use the search function.
Apple tv+, Amazon prime with the extra $5 per month or whatever, and peacock’s higher tier paid through Apple don’t have ads breaks in the middle of the media for me. Neither did Max when I had it a couple years ago.
Other shows or seasons that are rented with a lifetime license from apple (what they call “buying”) don’t have ad breaks either.
"Reading on a E-device is a bother, I have to sift through all the "sponsored" books and whatever other crap the ebook reader company decides to add, and be at the whims of whatever they decide they want to do with "your" device that day."
My fellow, you are on Hacker News. Think like a hacker, not a consumer.
Plenty of savvy e-book customers here don't have the experience you just described. Look up how to put KOReader ( https://koreader.rocks ) on your current device, and learn how to get your books without DRM. Your e-reading experience will be so much better.
Librera Reader is alsoa great open source eBook reader
https://github.com/foobnix/LibreraReader
I sort of get your point but I feel like its also a bit curmudgeon-y. In order to have the movies, shows, whatever, it has to be paid for somehow. Also, I think there is something to be said for discovering things. If you just have an API, what is the interface then? Is it like millions bespoke vibe-coded clients? That sounds like a bother too. How do you know in advance if a movie is something you want to see? I guess Dario or Altman can decide for us but what if they become a bother?
> Pretty much everything tech related anymore is a bother.
They have been optimizing for enshittification and they became really good at it. I have no idea how to get rid of these business practices. Users just leaving those abusive platforms clearly doesn't work.
You can solve all the problems you describe; it just takes some setup.
>Watching TV/Movies through any device is a bother, I have to sift through all the advertisements/brand placements for that device to find anything, and most of the time it's the same 20 movies repeated over and over in every section.
Pirate streaming sites[1] are more convenient, have fewer ads, and offer more selection than commercial streaming; they are much less reliable than the following options, however. Torrents have no ads, highest quality, and the largest selection, but you have to download each file manually. Good for preservation, less convenient. Stremio[2]+Torrentio[3]+Debrid[4] allow no ads, highest quality, a large selection, and streaming. This is my preferred option—this is the Spotify of movies and TV.
>Reading on a E-device is a bother, I have to sift through all the "sponsored" books and whatever other crap the ebook reader company decides to add, and be at the whims of whatever they decide they want to do with "your" device that day.
Kindle jailbreak[5] + KoReader[6] + Z-library[7] extension allow you to seamlessly download any book you'd like, directly on your Kindle. No ads, no Amazon connections, and your subsidized device[8].
>Cell-phones are a bother, they are just devices optimized for stealing your attention, money, information, or all the above.
GrapheneOS[9] comes with zero Google services or telemetry by default, and without stock bloatware or notification spam, combined with robust permissions, it goes a long way toward making your phone feel like a tool. I recommend Olauncher[10] for a distraction-free home screen.
>Pretty much everything tech related anymore is a bother.
I feel you. All of this takes effort and knowledge that people shouldn't have to acquire just to have a decent experience with their own devices. But these options exist, they are getting better, and the more people adopt them, the less leverage companies have to keep enshittifying.
[1] https://github.com/fmhy/FMHY/wiki/Streaming
[2] https://github.com/Stremio
[3] https://github.com/TheBeastLT/torrentio-scraper
[4] https://github.com/Viren070/guides
[5] https://github.com/KindleModding/kindlemodding.github.io
[6] https://github.com/koreader/koreader
[7] https://github.com/ZlibraryKO/zlibrary.koplugin
[8] https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/kindle/comments/1s69qnh/
[9] https://grapheneos.org
[10] https://github.com/tanujnotes/Olauncher
Physical books are irreplaceable to me. I love the feel, the smell, and having a house full of them. Just went to a library sale this morning and got even more.
I also really need a break from screens, and reading a book is a great excuse to not be on my phone or watching tv.
It's just better on the eyes. I've tried the Kindle too. Nothing is comparable to printed ink on paper.
Speak for yourself. Black text on white paper is unreadable. Too much glare. There is no dark mode for printed books with only a few rare exceptions.
Reading a book is also relaxing in a way that reading on a screen is not. It just feels more, I don't know, laid back? I have no idea how to describe that.
I’ve found that I have a hard time remembering what ebooks I’ve read, whereas the physical form of a print book makes it stick in my memory more.
Some kind of physical “totem” that came with an ebook would be an interesting idea, like a bookmark or a postcard-sized note.
I read about two dozen books a year, the majority as audiobooks, most of the rest as ebooks, and typically one or two in print. I quite like print books, but favor ebooks for the minimal size and weight. I prefer ebooks to audiobooks too, but have far more opportunities to listen to an audiobook than to sit down and read an ebook.
Even though print books are by far the minority of my reading, I still purchase print copies of books I enjoy, for discoverability. I’ve loved reading since childhood because I grew up in a house filled to bursting with my parents’ books. Nobody told me to read Tolkien, or Heinlein, or Verne, or Jack London, or Greek mythology—I simply took those books off the shelf and read them. And when we visited friends and family, I would read books from their shelves too. None of my young relatives have access to my ebook or audiobook history, and I’m not going to hammer my own interests into their heads… but I’m lucky enough to have lots of space, so I keep my bookshelves overflowing.
We honestly need a new term for listening to an audiobook. But the best part of audiobooks is that you can listen while doing other tasks so they free up many hours a day vs sitting and reading.
Totally. You didn’t “read” an audiobook
I like to use "consume"
I moved to paper after years of reading digitally. I find it easier to stay engaged because a book has only one purpose while my iPad Mini also has Instapaper and the internet. It’s also much easier to pick up and keep reading, and the book itself is a progress indicator.
I also love sharing paper books with friends. It’s a little experience that ebooks don’t give you.
It's probably been well over a decade since the last time I read a book, maybe two. Maybe it's an ADHD thing? but my retention and immersion is just so so so much deeper when I listen to audiobooks, even at 1.6x-2x (depending on the narrator) I feel like I'm transported in a way that reading physically just doesn't give me.
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It’s the complete disregard of typesetting in ebooks that has always repelled me. I fundamentally reject the notion that all books can be reduced to text files. Design matters!
I only read works consisting purely of prose on ebooks, mostly fiction. They are rubbish for text books for at least a couple of reasons:
1. The typesetting, as you point out. Books are carefully typeset for the size of the pages they are printed on. Screens are going to be completely the wrong size/shape for most things,
2. Seek speed. Seeking to a point in an ebook is excruciating. A real book is by far the best format for quickly seeking to a place or seeking backwards and forwards between multiple pages. I can also open two books at once and seek between them using only my eyes.
I like the convenience of ebooks but the physical feel of paperback is unmatched.
I can still remember where I was when I read a certain book or even a chapter in case of a physical book. With my kindle it's a blur to me.
I also like to see my bookmark gradually make its way down the book over time.
The problem with printed books is issues suffered by the visually impaired. It's not an issue solely with font size; printed books have no dark mode. If you're a digital nomad, weight is an issue as well.
If it helps, the bright white pages yellow with age. It'd be nice if dark mode caught on as an option. https://darkeditionbooks.com/ tries, but it looks like they don't have much more than works in the public domain.
I used to work in that field and procured braille media for visually impaired people. In the US state that I live in, light-weight print-to-order braille books are free for qualified low vision students, especially in an education setting. Unfortunately, in most other states free braille media may not be true. On the bright side, thanks to the power of AI, blindness may be a thing of the past, even for people that have chronic blindness. That would be one area with AI can benefit people if used correctly.
I’m surprised to see digital books are still growing in popularity. I notice way few Kindles in airports and on planes in recent years compared to ten or fifteen years ago.
I guess people are reading books on their phones and tablets?
I always buy the paper copies of the books (though I wait for a used version that’s between five and eight dollars) and I will use the paper version if I’m reading on a nice day outside but 75% of my reading happens on my phone and I find I can read much faster on the phone because one, I don’t have to deal with the intricacies of holding the book and the pages open and the second biggest factor is the iPhone screen is much smaller so you don’t really have to move your eyes all that much to get through the content and this leads to much faster reading speeds for me. I can easily get up to 600 words per minute on my iPhone.
Probably scrolling tiktok... With sound on and no headphones lol
Because they are better in almost every way.
Physical books burn - just ask the Library of Alexandria. Ebooks have so many more ways to be preserved and replicated.
ebooks already dont have a great track record when it comes to preservation. (https://old.reddit.com/r/kindle/comments/18csl9d/all_books_g...) At least Amazon can't break into my house to steal the copy of 1984 I paid for, when somehow they're allowed to remote into my device and delete my purchases whenever they feel like it. Bitrot is real too. Paper books can last a pretty long time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Cuthbert_Gospel)
There are downsides to both formats, but with paper there's no company keeping track of the date/time I open the books on my selves, or how often I open them, or how long I spend on each page, or how long I take to read the whole thing. I also don't have to worry about the books on my shelves being remotely and silently censored or edited. I don't have to worry about ads being inserted into them and I can freely read them and sell/loan them to others long after they've been banned.
Everything you said after "with paper" applies to ebooks, provided you get them without DRM. Your objections are to DRM, not to ebooks in general.
Random an combative
The be fair the parent said "almost." I see this more as a backup of the physical book. Other than search, the experience of physical books is superior, I think, for most people for most uses. You can come up with counterexamples like certain aspects of studying textbooks, etc., but I think this is true in general.
Can most people get physical books? Ebooks are made freely accessible by projects like Anna's Archive. An ebook can be more easily used as a printing source, can be more easily cited in research, and can be better preserved.
The one advantage of physical books is the reading experience itself, but even that is debatable. A Kindle lets you adjust brightness, change fonts—there are fonts that help dyslexic people, for example—and it's lighter than books. Did I mention dark mode?
First, let me step on my own foot for the sake of accuracy: people retain information slightly better when they read paper than screens, so textbooks definitely aren't an example I'd go with. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8715975/
That said, I can come up with far more than a few counterexamples for why ebooks are good, besides combustability:
- Paper books are dense. This adds difficulty to moving and maintaining large collections.
- Paper books take up space. Bookstores and libraries must necessarily remove books to make space for new ones. With ebooks, there's basically no need to remove old ones.
- Paper books are dense and take up space, so when travelling, the reader must carefully select one or two to carry. With ebooks, I can carry my entire ebook library in my pocket.
- Paper books require more effort to duplicate. My e-library is replicated across many devices, including two different offsites. If I spill sauce on a paper book, I need to buy another copy (assuming it's still available).
- Paper books have accessibility issues. As I get older and my vision deteriorates, I will need specialized optical hardware to read small print. On my e-reader, I can just turn up the font size.
In spite of all this, I would never say that ebooks are objectively superior; both are good. I just take issue with all of the people who assume that physical books are so obviously inherently superior, without ever saying why. (See your own post for example.)
I haven't purchased a DRM'd ebook in 8 years.
I buy "licenses" to read DRM'd ebooks all the time. Even though I disagree with DRM, I still want to reward the author/editor/illustrator/translator/etc for their artistry.
As for whether I leave the books in their DRM'd state or not? No comment :)
I thought this too for a long time. But I have since raised my estimate of the harms of DRM, and lowered my estimate of how much entertainment these artifacts provide. There is enough to read now without putting up with abusive relationships.
I just bought 'Psychology and Life' sixteenth edition and pondered just how much worse an ebook version of it would have been or unbearably clunky a pdf version would be as well.
The less screen time I spend, the better I feel.
On top of all the extremely valid points about the ad-driven cognitive friction inherent to modern device usage: print books can’t get yoinked off my shelf because a rich person with political connections wants that.
> print books can’t get yoinked off my shelf because a rich person with political connections wants that.
Yes except where rich people fund political book-banning groups to do that.
ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/12/books/book-bans-libraries...
With respect, this is just propaganda. That is not about banning books, that is about keep certain kinds of books out of school libraries. School libraries already kept other classes of books. This reminds of when Gavin Newsome or Pink tried to claim conservatives states banned "To Kill a Mocking Bird," which was not only untrue but it was the case that in their foolishness, they did not realize California banned the book, if anything.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gavin-news...
Space the final frontier. They didn't know how right they were in Star Trek.
I mean space to store all those physical books, of course.
I used to browse bookstores all the time in the past, but there are fewer and fewer physical bookstores around. Malls have been closing down for the longest time. Even when books were available, the prices were extremely high. I'm excluding school textbooks prices which are and always remain ultrahigh. If prices were more reasonable, I would think that more people would opt for physical books.
I read for information and online communication. I mostly consume books via audiobooks which are awesome when combined with good bluetooth earbuds and a local server like Audiobookshelf. Audiobooks are great because I can multitask by listening when I am walking, biking, lifting, driving, or shopping. I've listened to every Discworld novel and the entire Malazan series. I would never had actually sat down and read the malazan series.
Physical books are great. No ads, no battery to charge, no worry the content is going to be censored because somebody somewhere decides they don't like what they say. No worry they're going to be removed from my shelf. I can lend them to whomever I want. I can mark them up. The book in its current form is perfect. We don't really need to change it.
And then there's the whole experience of going into a bookstore and just looking around. It's wonderful. One of the last things our society has yet to fuck up.