As many sites do, it may actually invalidate your copyright. You have to put all of the years when you made copyrightable edits to the page. A range like 2010-2025 is only allowed if every single year in that range is included.
This sounds like pseudolegal folklore (in the US at least). Do you have any actual examples where this affected a case?
In the US, you get copyright on your work automatically, with or without a label.
The only thing a label does in the US is defend against "innocent infringement" defenses. But even that defense doesn't absolve the other party from liability; you just can't recover as much.
There is no reason you can't have `(C) 200X-$currentYear Acme Inc` or whatever.
Yet your earlier comment said "200x-$currentYear" not "200x-$modifiedYear" in reply to someone automatically inserting the year. That shows a misunderstanding of copyright AND an intent to mislead when you believe others view it as last updated.
You're better off omitting it entirely in generated web pages. No one cares unless they don't understand copyright, the year shown isn't the current year, and they're already looking to find fault. In other words, for those that treat it as last updated, they must already be struggling to find value when they scroll to your copyright notice, and at that point, after feeling the page looks stale, is seeing the current year going to change their mind?
I'm not sure what the point being made here even is, beyond arguing just to argue?
It does not matter in the US whether you use the current year or last modified date. At worst, omitting a date entirely makes it easier for the other guy to claim "innocent infringement", which only reduces your damages. Show me one US court case from this century where the tail of a date range had a material affect on the outcome.
Moreover, it is an objective fact that people use the current year and the modified year in web pages being written today. And based on the comment that kicked this whole chain off, clearly people are using it as a signal of when the page was changed.
1) You don't have to keep copyrights up to date (and in fact you don't have to put them at all), 2) Every single startup i've seen on HN is sketchy af. Racking laptops in a cage at a Hetzner DC is probably the least sketchy product i've seen here.
And honestly, not a terrible idea, I have old laptops that would work as a VPS. $7/month for somebody to host a public server for me, and not on my crappy residential isp? All I have to lose is an old laptop I haven't touched in 5 years? Sign me up
(they do need a real domain before i'll give them money tho, lol)
Yeah but for $6/mo you can get a tiny linode or digital ocean droplet, and not worry about hardware failing. It's true that a laptop probably has more resources than the smallest VMs, but no remote management interface and can't scale if you suddenly had a surge of traffic.
> Yeah but for $6/mo you can get a tiny linode or digital ocean droplet
That gets you, what, 1 "vCPU" with maybe a gig of ram and a couple of dozen gig of disk.
If you (or a friend) work for a company of any size, there's probably a cupboard full of laptops that won't upgrade to Win11 sitting there doing nothing that you could get for free just by asking the right person. It'll have 4 or 8 cores, each of which is more powerful that the "vCPU" in that droplet. It'll have 8 or maybe 16gig of ram, and at least half a TB of disk and depending on that laptop quite likely to be able to be configured with half a TB of fast nVME storage and a few TB of slower spinning rust storage.
If you want 8vCPUs/cores, 16GB of ram, and 500GB of SSD, all of a sudden Digital Ocean looks more like $250/month.
If you are somewhere in that grey area where you need more than ivCPU and 1GB of memory, grabbing the laptop out of the cupboard that your PM or one of the admin staff upgraded from last year and shipping not off to a datacenter with your flavour of linux installed seems like it's worth considering.
Hell, get together with a friend and have two laptops hosted for 14Euro/month between you, and be each others "failing hardware" backup plan...
I bet colos will plug a KVM into your hardware and give you remote access to that KVM. I also bet rachelbythebay has at least one article that talks about the topic.
> ...can't scale if you suddenly had a surge of traffic.
1) If your public server serves entirely or nearly-entirely static data, you're going to saturate your network before you saturate the CPU resources on that laptop.
2) Even if it isn't, computers are way faster than folks give them credit for when you're not weighing them down with Kubernetes and/or running swarms of VMs. [0]
Yeah. I got bored a couple of hours after I posted that speculation and found several other colo facilities that mentioned that they'd do remote KVM. I'd figured that it was a common thing (a fair chunk of hardware you might want to colo either doesn't have IPMI or doesn't have IPMI that's worth a damn), but wasn't sure.
You (the person paying to co-locate hardware) don't buy the KVM that the colo facility uses. The colo facility hooks up the KVM that they own to your hardware and configures it so that you can access it. Once you stop paying to colo your hardware, you take your hardware back (or maybe pay them to dispose of it, I guess) and they keep the KVM, because it's theirs.
k8s doesn't really weigh you down, especially if tuned for the low end use case (k1s). It encourages some dumb decisions that do, such as using Prometheus stack with default settings, but by itself it just eats a lot of ram.
Now using CPU limits in k8s with cgroups v1 does hurt performance. But doing that would hurt performance without k8s too.
> k8s doesn't really weigh you down, especially if tuned for the low end use case (k1s).
Sorry, what "k1s" are you referring to? The only projects with that name that I see are either cut-down management CLIs and GUIs that only work with a preexisting Kubernetes cluster, or years-old abandoned proof-of-concept/alpha-grade Kubernetes reimplementations that are completely unsuitable as a Kubernetes replacement.
The only actually-functional cut-down Kubernetes I'm aware of is 'minikube'. Minikube requires -at minimum- 2 CPUs, 2GB of RAM and 20GB of disk space. [0] That doesn't fit on either of the machines 'nrdvana' was talking about... not the "tiny ... digital ocean droplet", with its 1CPU, 1GB of RAM, and 25GB of disk space [1], nor the "tiny linode" (which has roughly the same specs [2]).
Given that it's not at all uncommon for discarded laptops to have 4 CPUs, 8GB of RAM, and like 250GB of disk, eating 1/4th of the RAM, (intermittently) half of the CPU power, and roughly a tenth of the disk space just for Kubernetes housekeeping kinda sucks. That's pretty damn "heavy", in my judgment. So. Do you have a link to this 'k1s' thing you were talking about? Does it use less than 2 CPUs, 2GB of RAM, and 20GB of disk?
There are a couple of things here: first off, minikube isn't tuned for low resources, it's a full k8s packaged for developers. Second, it doesn't burn much CPU at all unless you blew it up and it's churning pods. Third, try to remember that you're running a tool that provides most of what you need to run a service, it's not a bare VM, it comes with reverse proxy, tons of tools, and cluster management.
Basically those minimal specs let you actually run quite a lot of stuff on that minikube, they're not just for the management system.
k0s needs roughly 500MB RAM and 1.5GB drive to run a controller+worker. Can probably pare k3s down to that as well.
And I repeat, this gets you single pane cluster management across all your laptops, reverse proxy, DNS, resource shaping, namespaces, etc. Only big problem with it is that adding distributed storage is quite heavy and unstable (longhorn) or really heavy (ceph), so storage management might need to be manual which is a pain in k8s.
You noticed that I said "(intermittently) half of the CPU power", yeah?
> Third, try to remember that you're running a tool that provides most of what you need to run a service...
I already get everything that I need to run a service with old-ass systems like OpenRC+netifrc or -hack, gag- systemd and its swarm of dependencies. "Run a service on a *nix box" is a thing that we've had pretty well nailed down for decades now. It is -after all- how the services that run Kubernetes get run. Do note that you're talking to someone who does Linux system administration both as a hobby and professionally.
> Sorry I meant k0s. Off by one error at 3 am.
Sure, no problem. Shit happens.
So, k0s? Compared to minikube, the official minimum spec tables [0] indicate that -if you colocate the controller and worker- it cuts the CPU and RAM needs in half, and cuts the disk space by a factor of ten. That's nice, but that's still an eighth of the RAM and (intermittently) a quarter of the CPU of our hypothetical-but-plausible castoff laptop. That's still a lot of resources. And compared to what it costs you, you don't get much. If we were talking about some big, bad, mutually-untrusted-multitenant situation, it could be worth the cost, but -despite what folks like the CNCF might like you to believe- that's not the only scenario out there.
Also Mirantis is responsible for k0s? [1][3] After their rugpull with their Openstack distro way back when, I don't trust that they'll keep maintaining and providing complex stuff that's free to use for long enough to make it worth making a critical part of one's business. (Yes, this has absolutely nothing to do with its resource usage. I'm absolutely not bringing it up to support that argument in any way. I "just" thought it important to mention that I don't trust that Mirantis's free stuff will continue to be free for long enough to safely build (more of?) your business on.)
[1] From [2] "Mirantis offers technical support, professional services and training for k0s. The support subscriptions include, for example, prioritized support (Phone, Web, Email) and access to verified extensions on top of your k0s cluster."
[3] As additional evidence, the only two humans on the first page of commits to the k0s repo are Tom Wieczorek, whose Github profile indicates his affiliation with Mirantis [4], and Jussi Nummelin who is very, very obviously a Mirantis employee. [5] I tried to look at the complete Github contributor list for the k0s repo, but it simply wouldn't load. [6] But, I'd be shocked if this wasn't Mirantis's totally-functional-but-still-pet project that intends to more than make up the cost of development and maintenance with support contracts.
Hey I'm not arguing that you in particular shouldn't use old tech for fun. Heck serve your emacs written internet website via nc from your Amiga for all I care.
I'm just pointing out that it's easy and sufficiently efficient to run k8s on old computers, which makes running homelabs quite easy and also allows projects such as the OP to really shine. You seem to really enjoy telling me how bad it is that k8s needs 0.05 CPU and 500MB of RAM to run but the thing is it will scale horizontally a lot, and also presents the APIs you'll be expected to know in a devops job in 2026.
> Website copyright is out of date by two years...
Can you explain how a copyright can be "out of date by two years"?
I always thought the copyright notice should reflect the year of creation, and that it's actually bad (from a legal POV) to always show the current year through scripting.
The problem is that the website says they are still working out the logistics details. If the company has been around for 2 years they should have figured that out and updated the page by now.
So many people want to believe in this sort of thing for various reasons that I get fatigued at the very thought of trying to explain to people who believe in it earnestly that it is not a good idea. (e.g. commercial hosting services are really competitive; for a long time the cost of computing has been going down over time though I don't know if that is reversing because we've hit the end of the real Moore's law [1] or if it is a temporary blip)
[1] the motor behind it is cost reduction, once that stops it stops because we can't afford it anymore!
Well, it exists, but it exists if you’re willing to buy server hardware on eBay, hustle to get old parts working together, negotiate a good deal on a cabinet, get space from ARIN and announce it and so on. There are probably 10-50x cost efficiencies vs. renting 5 year old CPU families on AWS at huge markup.
A laptop isn’t the way to do that though. And your typical VC-fueled startup isn’t going to know how to do it either. It takes a very narrow slice of competence to be able to do that correctly.
I think it's most likely testing the waters for a real offering. It's not that weird. Many colo data centers already have policies about hosting laptops because it's already something that happens. It just isn't common and usually isn't for hosting servers.
If the battery in the laptop is still good, it comes with it's own UPS. My MBPs haven't had an ethernet port in a minute, so do you have to supply your own adapters as well??? You could fit ~15 MBPs on their edge in 9RUs. That'd be an interesting looking rack. Not quite a blade chassis. It'd be rather boring looking as there's no blinky-blinkies
I didn't really think that any of what I wrote would be taken seriously to the point of needing a retort. I mentioned blade servers and knew rack unit measurements which as context clues would have suggested I was familiar with actual data center equipment.
And yet most homes and offices are full of them. Laptop batteries don't usually catch fire. At the colos I am familiar with (which have pretty strict rules, generally), you can have equipment with batteries as long as you regularly inspect them.
If you got creative with cable management you might be able to double up front and rear. It would probably be a PITA to manage but you could probably get some halfway decent density
Looks like they were proposing supplying usb Ethernet adapters, which doesn’t seem crazy, they’re cheap.
Hetzner rents you 42RU for €199 plus power and network. If we assume they can fill the entire rack, that's 4 9RU units for about €50 plus power and network.
If we assume an average power draw of 20W per laptop, that's 300W for each 15 laptop unit, or about €57/month in Hetzner's Finish DC (including aircon)
Not sure about network. A 1Gbit uplink with 10TB traffic (and €1/TB after that) is provided. Upgrading that to 10Gbit is probably similar to the €51/month cost for the same uplink for dedicated servers, so another €15 for each 15 laptop unit. Plus around €2/month/IP, but you can probably bring your own if you find a cheaper subnet to buy
So yeah, you are right that the math does not work out. But it is pretty close to break even. I think you can break even on this if you find a more space efficient way to cram them into the rack and don't pay yourself any salary
Colocating itself, though isn't new at all. Lots of different ways to host, including servers, mac minis, laptops are conceivable too because they share the same kinds of parts that mac minis might have.
Also, isn't this just a huge fire hazard of they actually do what they claim? Or will they remove the batteries from these old, continually plugged in, poorly cooled laptops?
Maybe I'm in the minority... but this seems like an extremely compelling offering for certain use-cases. Not for enterprises, but for individuals and small businesses.
My off-site backup is a thinkpad x230 with a 1 TB HDD. It's currently at my friends house, and I access it with tailscale. 7 eur/month to colocate this in a datacenter with stable (and fast) Internet + power seems like a pretty good deal.
I can understand some of the concerns with user-provided hardware. Maybe a better model, would be for CoLaptop to offer hardware themselves. This would allow them to standardize on a few models, which opens up many possible improvements such as central DC power, power efficient BIOS settings, enclosures with cooling ducts, etc. They can still follow the "old laptop as a server" model by buying off-lease laptops from the corporate world.
I mean we literally did this in one of my previous places. We took all the old laptops that were to be junked by IT, and used them as a selenium test farm. We saved like $100k per month on the AWS bill at the cost of basically electricity.
If all the machines were running Windows, the difference would've been even more drastic.
What I dont get is that we have these autoscaling technologies that allow software to be fault tolerant to hardware failure, yet companies still insist on buying expensive server grade HW for everything.
Been through this recently in a fairly large enterprise
We have some in house software which runs in k8s. Total throughput peaks at about 1mbit a second of control traffic - it's controlling some other devices which are on dedicated hardware. Total of 24GB of ram.
The software team say it needs to run across 3 different servers for resilience purposes.
The VM team want to use neutronix as their VM platform, so they can live migrate one VM to another.
They insist on 25gbit networking, and for resilience purposes that needs to be mlagged
The network team also have to have multiple switches and routers, again for resilience.
So rather than having 3 $1000 laptops running bare metal kubes hanging off a pair of $500 1G switches eating maybe 200W, we have a $140k BOM sucking up 2kW.
When something goes wrong all those layers of resilience will no doubt fight each other. The hardware drops, so the VM freezes as it restored onto another host, so K8s moves the workloads, then the VM comes back, the k8s gets confused (maybe? I don't know how k8s works).
It's all needlessly overspecced costing 30 times as much as it should.
But from each individual team it makes sense. They don't want to be blamed if it doesn't work, they don't have to find the money. It's different departments.
One of my favorite bits of hardware is a UPS. I’ve played with several over the years, from fancy server-grade rack-mount APC stuff to inexpensive edge stuff. Without exception, downtime is increased by use of a UPS. I used to plug a server with redundant PSUs into the UPS and the wall so it could ride out UPS glitches.
Even today, a UPS that turns itself back on after power goes out long enough to drain the battery and is then restored is somewhat exotic. Amusingly, even the new UniFi UPSes, which are clearly meant to be shoved in a closet somewhere, supposedly turn off and stay off when the battery drains according to forum posts. There are no official docs, of course.
Sounds like crappy UPSes. Even the cheap old used eBay Eaton UPSes I have in my homelab have a setting for "Auto restart" and the factory default setting is "enabled".
But even rackmount UPSes are more of an "edge" sort of solution. A data center UPS takes up at least a room.
I assume that datacenters UPSes are better, but I’ve never used one except as a consumer of its output.
But I’ve had problems with UPSes that advertise auto-restart but don’t actually ship with it enabled. And that fancy APC unit was sold by fancy Dell sales people and supported directly by real humans at APC, and it would still regularly get mad, start beeping, and turn off its output despite its battery being fully charged and the upstream power being just fine (and APC’s techs were never able to figure it out either).
> I assume that datacenters UPSes are better [...]
I don't know about specific datacenter models, but in our colocation there are humans available 24/7. So the UPS might not start after failure, but there's a human to figure it out.
Most (all?) decent datacenters also have generators on site, and the intent is that the UPS will never run out of charge. So the fully-discharged case is an error and it might be intentional to require intervention to recover.
Yeah, some people treat UPSes as "backup power" but that's not really what they're intended for. Their intended purpose is to bridge the gap during interruptions... either to an alternative power source, or to a powered-off state.
Sure, but when you stick a UPS in the closet to power your network or security cameras or whatever for a little while if there is a power interruption, you expect:
a) If the power is out too long for your UPS (or you have solar and batteries and they discharge overnight or whatever) that the system will turn back on when the power recovers, and
b) You will not have extra bonus outages just because the UPS is in a bad mood.
I completely agree with B. But alas, people love buying shitty cheap UPSes.
But A is along the lines of the misconception that I'm referring to... There should be no such thing as "the power being out too long for your UPS". A UPS isn't there to give you a little while to ignore the problem, it's there to give you time to address it. Either by switching to another source of power, or to power off the equipment.
Now, the reason that every UPS that supports auto-restart has it as a configurable option, is because you often don't want to do this for many reasons, e.g.:
* a low SOC battery could not guarantee a minimum runtime for safe shutdown during a repeated outage
* a catastrophic failure (because the battery shouldn't be dead) could be an indication of other issues that need to be addressed before power on
* powering on the equipment may require staggering to prevent inrush current overload
The whole use case of "I'm using the UPS to run my equipment during an outage" is kind of an abuse of their purpose. It's commonly done, and I've done it myself. But it's not what they're for.
But also, if you want a UPS that auto-restarts -- they exist -- but you get what you pay for.
> a low SOC battery could not guarantee a minimum runtime for safe shutdown during a repeated outage
A lot of devices are unconditionally safe to shut down. Think network equipment, signs, exit lights, and well designed computers.
> a catastrophic failure (because the battery shouldn't be dead) could be an indication of other issues that need to be addressed before power on
This is such a weird presumption. Power outages happen. Long power outages happen. Fancy management software that triggers a controlled shutdown when the SOC is low might still leave nonzero remaining load. In fact, if you have a load that uses a UPS to trigger a controlled shutdown, it’s almost definitional that a controlled shutdown is not a catastrophe and that the system should turn back on eventually.
All of your points are valid for serious datacenter gear and even for large server closets, but for small systems I think they don’t apply to most users, and I’m talking about smaller UPSes.
> > a low SOC battery could not guarantee a minimum runtime for safe shutdown during a repeated outage
> A lot of devices are unconditionally safe to shut down.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean you want to expose them to brownout conditions when your UPS is depleted. If the power is continuing to flip on and off, it's better to just leave it off if you don't have the battery to prevent even short interruptions. A good UPS can do this automatically for you. A cheap one will just stay off and let you respond to the outage.
> This is such a weird presumption.
It wasn't a presumption I was making for all users -- but an example of why some users might not want auto-restart as a feature. Of course, if you want auto-restart as a feature, you can buy a UPS that has it as a feature and turn it on.
> they don’t apply to most users, and I’m talking about smaller UPSes.
Yeah, I know the situation: Someone has a network closet on a budget with a UPS they've sized to get them a few minutes of runtime. They put a UPS on the BOM because it checks a box. So they buy a low-end UPS that either doesn't have the feature, or it doesn't work right.
The solution is just to buy the right UPS for the thing they were trying to do... and test it.
The funniest thing about huge enterprises is that they often have processes so convoluted and restrictive for everything, that getting stuff done by the book is basically impossible, so people get creative with the limitations and we often end up with the sketchiest solutions in existence.
I hope the words 'web server hosted in Excel VBA' illustrate the magnitude of horrors that can emerge in these situations.
I saw an entire physical switch configured for bridging VLANs. It was even labeled as such. 802.1q is hard and confusing if you don't know what you're doing.
Enterprise hardware has companies that your company can call to get support when things go sideways, if they're using a rack full of 5 year old Thinkpads then they're on their own if something breaks
I believe they are referring to the dumpster support model. The hardware is so cheap that, if it fails, you toss it in a dumpster and buy more by the gross. Using Kubernetes to spread loads across your less reliable nodes ensures high availability. Sometimes this can be even more reliable because you are regularly testing your recovery and backup features and your hardware is more varied.
The downside is that if some piece of firmware or hardware has a vulnerability you have a larger attack surface.
We didn't have support, and we didn't need it, as the hardware was essentially EOL, probably would've been sold for like 20% of new price. We just chucked Selenium grid on them, locked them in the storage room, and if they died, they died (they didn't die a lot tho, which is surprising, as we had quite a few cheap sketchy in there as well)
I can deconstruct my workflow to the point where the benefits of plugging outdated hardware into the project are calculable. Info, transformation, etc I don't need in near real time feels like it's trending towards the price of electricity.
Since I've been looking at this situation from a resource point of view for a bit I see obvious savings in slowing down certain accepted processes. For example, an entity that continuously updates needs to be continuously scraped while an entity that publishes once a day needs to be hit once a day.
> What I dont get is that we have these autoscaling technologies that allow software to be fault tolerant to hardware failure, yet companies still insist on buying expensive server grade HW for everything.
Simple: the cost of managing the hardware scales with its heterogenity and reliability. Even just dealing with the dozens of different form factors (air vent placement!) and power units of laptops would be a big headache.
If it's an offsite backup, you would deal with it like you would any DR site-- either plan for yet another backup, or presume that it's unlikely that both the primary and replica would go down simultaneously and accept the risk.
> Your old laptop packs more CPU power, RAM, and storage than their entry-level offerings - and with us, you'll pay just €7/month for professional hosting
This is basically the same price as the cheapest options on Hetzner: https://snipboard.io/C9epWo.jpg. Sure my old laptop does have more RAM and a bigger SSD, but I bet it's also less reliable than Hetzner's servers, and is likely to suddenly die some day. So is the tradeoff really worth it? It's hard for me to believe that this is a genuine improvement for most things. The only definite winning case I can think of is if I have a process I want to run, but I don't care if it just suddenly stops working. But when would that ever be the case? and to save a couple dollars per month?
> I bet it's also less reliable than Hetzner's servers, and is likely to suddenly die some day
I’m a happy Hetzner customer but I have had servers that I rented from them die a couple of times.
I rent physical servers from them that have been previously rented to other customers. At some point hard drives fail.
However, I have solid backup setup in place (ZFS send and recv to other physical hosts in different physical locations) with that in mind, so I haven’t lost data with Hetzner. But if I naively did not have any backup then data would have gotten lost a couple of times.
Of course. Just pointing out that even if the hardware might be server grade, doesn’t mean one can assume that the risk of hardware failure is negligibly low. And that one always needs to have offsite backups.
> I rent physical servers from them that have been previously rented to other customers. At some point hard drives fail.
The comparison in this case is to Hetzner's VPS offerings, which are probably less powerful than the average "old laptop" but have a significant advantage in terms of hardware reliability. It's still possible for the host running the VPS to have problems which result in a crash or the VM equivalent of a hard power off but the VM hosts and their underlying storage should be redundant such that the virtual hardware never fails.
That's not to say rebooting from a crash-consistent state will always work, you should always keep backups even with a high-quality VPS host, but the odds of recovering cleanly from a hardware problem are orders of magnitude better than an old laptop. For the sort of hobby project or personal tinker box that would be reasonable to host on a random laptop shoved in a rack you probably wouldn't even notice the downtime until you saw the event notification email your provider sends you.
I've run a 7 figure business from an SSD shoved in a sata2 DVD-ROM slot in a DC because the end customer was being obtuse about upgrading from their "high end, best practice" raid 10 discs.
You use so many big words for nothing. All you need are backups. When it dies you restore. Nobody will care.
Not sure how Hetzner works, but do they have IDRAC type access to their servers and/or remote hands available to fix stuff? Guess you'd be on the hook for that sort of thing here, making the Hetzner price more appealing if they do include that kind of functionality.
I work for IPinfo and we operate a distributed network consisting of around 1,400 servers. I think we have reached a point where it is extremely hard for us purchase VPSes from interesting ASNs.
To support lots of ISPs, universities, and different organizations we have been asking them if they have an old laptop lying around that they can host our software on. Goal is to reach 70,000 probes within the next couple of years.
It is a simple probe software and we share some data or we can pay 20-30 bucks a month for it. We have a couple of NUCs in remote regions but no laptops yet. Basically, we are even happy if an ISP (or any one) hosts our software from a laptop dangling by a charging cable from a socket in some random corner.
We can send over a RPI or NUC, but with remote hands, and setup and all that it can get quite expensive. So, we always first ask if they have an old laptop lying around and can install our software there.
For us, at least, we are not interested in the hardware aspect. We are interested in the network. The old laptop approach only acts as a last resort. We will be more than happy to go with the predictability of a traditional VPS hosted in a traditional data center. Colocation, no matter what form it takes, involves a lot of moving parts.
Interesting challenge! My first thought: 70k probes is a lot and having to set that up is quite a task. Why not develop an phone app with exit node capabilities (similar to Tailscale) so you can use that for probing? The real win is that people move around, obtaining you even more data points from other network.
We actually have app-based data collection capabilities and initiatives. Our goal, or more appropriately, vision, is to map the internet in real time. This involves SSH access to devices to run different forms of measurements at a very high frequency and have control over those devices.
Managing 70k probes is not going to be super hard.
Managing 1,400 servers is just a normal business operation, not a technical challenge. Each probe has a standard OS-level configuration. Automation and configuration are deployed from a central system. Each probe is actively monitored and troubleshot. Data is dumped to a data warehouse. We make incremental improvements to our network. When servers go down, we talk to vendors.
We do a lot of novel engineering things from the infrastructure, data, and research team. Having a very identical set of servers really allows us to focus on product and performance engineering, not troubleshooting engineering. With application-based probing, I assume it will complicate things quite a bit, as there are different operating systems, different devices, etc.
For us, lately the challenge is not technical. It has been exclusively procurement. This quarter (https://ipinfo.io/blog/probenet-q1-2026-expansion), we exclusively focused on regional diversity which involved outreach to national ISPs or telecoms. Securing servers from telecoms is an extremely bureaucratic and expensive process. So, we are hoping to partner up with eyeball networks and the larger NOG community.
Its a page hosted on CLoudFlare's "pages.dev" service. Their method of contact is a Google Form which does have an email address on this domain "CoLaptop [dot] com", but that as a web address does not work.
Maybe it's someone's old project idea that they never got around to finishing, and OP randomly found it and posted it here. Maybe it was never meant to be shared.
Old laptops as low cost servers? Absolutely, build a homelab in your own basement, rent a cheap VPS, set up wireguard and viola - instant data center for tens of dollars per month. It's not production grade but you'll learn a ton.
But colocation?
Strip away the learning component and add production uptime requirements - why would you even consider using crusty old laptops for this? If you have production grade needs, look to a standard cloud provider or, at the very least, a colo facility where you can put production-grade equipment.
I don't see it. Hobby projects can use a VPN tunnel to make a data center from local equipment. Real projects that choose colocation have uptime requirements that simply can't be met by random consumer hardware. The venn diagrams don't intersect.
There's no middle ground where you try to run a real business on old laptops. That's insane. You either keep things small/hobby and stay simple, or graduate to production-grade equipment once you have real requirements.
The middle ground, taking on production colocation problems plus the unreliability of random hardware, sounds like the worst of both worlds. There are both simpler and more robust options.
Initially I believe Google was known for getting unreliable hardware with good software to manage it (a single laptop probably won't cut it, but a bunch of laptops scattered around the globe could be interesting -- when you grow things fail all the time anyways).
They aren't targeting no one (and looks like they aren't at all).
Just do the math: for a measly €2000 a month, a salary of a cashier in Amsterdam, you already need to have 285 clients - and this is without taxes and revenue.
I have always dreamed of substituting a really expensive rack of servers with a couple of elderly laptops, with their built in UPS, handy screens, keyboards and trackpads. However, for pet projects, I now have a better way of being cheapskate.
Some ecommerce software stacks really need gargantuan amounts of RAM and CPU, which gets expensive on the cloud. However, it is possible with some software to have everything massively cached, with the cloud doing that, with the origin server in my basement, only accessible from the allowed cache arrangement, therefore having the setup reasonably secure and cheap.
Downsides to this, having customer details in the basement rather than a secure facility, but how many developers have huge customer databases just casually lying around on USB sticks and whatnot? It happens.
Don't use "the cloud", rent a moderately-priced server. This "cloud" fetishism (that means AWS/Azure/GCP) has led to billions of dollars in unnecessary revenue for those companies and unnecessary expenses for the rest of the world.
> it is possible with some software to have everything massively cached, with the cloud doing that, with the origin server in my basement, only accessible from the allowed cache arrangement
The advantage of a laptop is exactly that you can easily host it at home, and own everything. I have one - with an UPS also holding the router and fiber optic and an external HDD. I'm actually working right now to version 2.0 which is a beefed up version - still used laptop (found a great deal on a lenovo P1), but slightly more expensive and I'm waiting on some parts to upgrade. Should be able to even hold the production environment in a pinch.
Ah, and obviously you put a claude/codex on it, so your actual work is just ... installing claude, and maybe a linux. The rest is done by the AI - setup, scripting etc.
As a colocated option... I see it work for some people. But it'd be a niche offering, when the whole value proposition is "make my own, with blackjack and hookers".
It's ok if you can physically remove the battery. I'm pretty sure to have read multiple times that laptops thermals and battery engineering are optimized for daily use in open areas, not to safely run workloads 24/7 in a closet.
My home lab rack is a toast rack. Literally, that's how I hold the laptops vertically so they get decent airflow, and it also makes for very easy access. As soon as you go past one laptop it's a thing.
There are laptops with ECC RAM, but they are uncommon.
Otherwise, the effect of memory errors depends on the use case.
If the laptop or mini-PC is used as a router/firewall/Internet gateway, then memory errors are usually not important, because they would result in corrupted network packets that are likely to be detected at the endpoints of a network connection.
If the laptop or mini-PC is used as an e-mail server or a Web server, then a fraction of the memory errors may result in a stored file that becomes corrupted.
At the small amounts of memory typical for a laptop or mini-PC, unless the PC is many years old there should be no more than a few memory errors per year at most, and the majority of the errors might not result in file corruption, but sometimes they may cause weird behavior requiring a computer reboot.
Anecdotally, during the years I have seen on the Internet a non-negligible amount of big files, e.g. movies, which appear to have bit flips that are likely to have been caused by their hosting on servers without ECC memory. Fortunately, in movies a small number of bit flips will not cause severe quality degradation.
With more valuable data, one must use ECC memory to avoid such problems.
Just gonna point this out since I noticed it a few weeks ago and notice is still there, Hetzner has paused selling new colocation service: https://www.hetzner.com/colocation/
It’s OKish as a starting point into selfhosted world but overall not ideal. The battery is a fire risk and the entire thermal design isn’t really geared towards 24/7 operation.
Not really something I’d co locate unless it was a DC physically near me so that stopping by is easy
> The battery is a fire risk and the entire thermal design isn’t really geared towards 24/7 operation.
I remember having this old Dell Latitude, where you could easily swap out the battery pack with a button/tab thing on the back, without having to open anything else up - I even got a spare bigger capacity battery, but it would work without one altogether when connected to the power brick.
I unironically think that all laptops should be built like that.
I recall that being the case; my impression is that a major difference between laptops and smartphones is that when plugged in, the laptop bypasses the battery to draw power directly, rather than charging the battery and then drawing power from it.
My previous Thinkbook 14+ had an issue where the Type-C charging port would occasionally have a poor connection. When this happened, the device would lose power immediately, and restarting it required BitLocker verification.
First thing I learned attempting the same is that lid open vs closed are two very different situations in terms of thermals.
But overall without aggressive throttling these devices work a maximum of half an hour before the components get saturated with heat and performance tanks.
Yup. Gaming laptops with dedicated GPUs tend to fare better on this because internally the CPU and GPU is often bridged with a heat pipe and shared cooling
So thermals are specd for both running at same time but you only need CPU for home server so shouldn’t throttle
Funny, I had a similar idea this morning in the shower. I was thinking about how distributed digital infrastructure could be achieved in practice. Running some music streaming and photo server on an old laptop at home that I access via tailscale has proved surprisingly smooth. I feel there is some future in empowering users by giving them access to a cloud on hardware that is actually owned by the user. It would be a way to achieve absolute digital freedom, no lock-in and if done in a secure way privacy friendly. Hell it's the OG idea of the internet! The question is how to bring this to non-technical users. I know many people who are getting sick of paying each month both to Apple and Google for storing their ever growing pile of pictures. This solution of course does imply some sort of lock-in as your tied to a subscription and it's probably quite the hassle to get your laptop back. Also the fire hazard seems like a legit concern. I nevertheless do hear some music here.
Eeek, I can't imagine what this is like if it scales. What happens to the fire risk when theres 20,000 laptops with aging batteries all sitting together? I hope they take the batteries out, however many laptops use batteries to smooth out power fluctuations.
Laptops aren't designed to be servers - peg your laptop CPU and GPU at 100% and see how long it lasts, I've done this before and the answer is about "2 months", yep sure, this effort isn't targeting that workload, but how many bad apples does it take to start a fire? In their page they say "kubernetes server - no problem" kubernetes DOES keep the CPUs busy, not pegged, but busy enough so that they wont step down their frequency.
I admire the effort to reuse old tech, but boy oh boy would I not want to be a sysadmin here!
I worked for a place that did something akin to this in the early 2010s. Someone figured out how to add 32-bit company laptops to the virtualization cluster (likely because they were using one as a stand in for a server that at the time would have been in the works but not yet purchased) and so once that work had been incurred they just kept "retiring" unserviceable company laptops to the cluster. Imagine a standard wire metro-rack crammed in a telecom closet beside a normal server rack. Now imagine that metro rack literally full of Toshiba Satellite Pro's from about 2005-9. The cluster hosted virtual machines for testing.
No fires, no hardware problems. No special cooling other than the mini-split that was in the closet to cool the server rack. They just kept trucking. But modern hardware is much more high strung and I don't doubt you'd have weird failures.
Edit: Back then VMs were how things were done and RAM was seemingly always the bottleneck by a mile, so the cluster did add up to a meaningful amount of extra performance compared to not having it.
My old Lenovo t420 has been running 24/7 pegged as a multi-camera DVR since 2011, no issues whatsoever. Of course the battery is removed, but I don't see many decent laptops struggling running under load for prolonged periods.
All the big 3 cloud providers suck if you use them purely as VPS. I’ve tried AWS Lightsail (basically, slightly cheaper EC2) and it’s so much slower than what I’d expect from a similar spec VM from a normal hosting provider.
Hetzner, DigitalOcean, OVH, Vultr are some of the better-known ones. Personally, I’m very happy with SSD Nodes. Paying $90/yr for a 4 vCPU¹ / 16 GB / 320 GB SSD, had some downtime exactly once in two years (they’ve had to switch their IPv4 space in Tokyo). Affiliate link: https://ale.sh/r/ssdnodes
[1]: Intel Xeon E5-2650 v4 (4) @ 2.199GHz – not great, I know, but to reiterate: that’s for $90 a year.
I feel like Azure and AWS are both getting worse. I logged into a VM I haven't used in some time and was immediately shocked at just how slowly it rendered even the most basic UI elements.
Have an old Mac book pro sitting in my office as a self hosted Mac GitHub runner and it works great.
My biggest complaint used to be that it would occasionally restart after a system update and I’d have to unlock FileVault in person, but macOS 26 now allows unlocks over ssh.
Suppose we set aside the concerns in this thread about the legitimacy of this.
How would this work when the old hardware inevitably needs to be serviced (mechanical hard drive failure, memory errors, dust buildup, etc)?
Would they have technicians on-site available to service whatever random laptop you send them? If your laptop dies do they ship it back to you so you can fix it and send it back?
Or what if you bork the OS by accident? Will their KVM solution allow you to upload an ISO and plug it in over some USB drive emulation?
+ The usual limiting factor in data centers is power, so laptops could be more optimized for greater cycle efficiency per power than comparable old servers.
+ Laptops are generally compact and so achieve greater rack densities than individual co-lo servers. I'm thinking about 34 or 51 laptops could be stored in 9 or 10U either 2 or 3 rows deep by 17 wide.
+ Shipping a laptop to a co-lo data center is cheaper than a 1U server.
~ Reusing electronics saves e-waste and reduces unnecessary consumption, either old servers or old laptops.
- Laptops lack ECC RAM.
- Laptops typically don't use nearly as fast CPUs or RAM as contemporaneous servers.
- Laptops are limited in their storage options.
- Laptops lack remote, lights-out management of real servers.
- Repairing old failed laptop components is more difficult than old servers.
~ Old laptops tend not to have usable batteries, so there's unlikely to be much an inherently distributed battery backup capability.
- Old laptop batteries of various origins could be a li-ion NMC fire hazard at scale.
~ Reusing old stuff at any sort of scale would prefer standardization, and it's sometimes difficult to amass many of the same discontinued model.
Conclusion: Do it if it works for you. It's kinda cool.
I think it's one of those ideas that only works with nostalgia or hoarding impulses to support it.
I think normal virtualization approaches are far more power efficient, at a fleet level, than any kind of cluster of laptop scenarios. You can pile in the cores and amortize the costs of memory controllers etc. over a large set of guests.
It is a funny way to get features of both worlds. One reason to want colo (rather than VMs) is for predictability, but laptops still give you the funny throughput problems, because of thermal throttling instead of competing guests.
Sure that can work for individuals and small groups with physical separate high availability. It maybe faster and simpler to find another replacement, but I'm thinking about it from a permaculture perspective of sometimes old parts inventory exist somewhere for cheap or it's only a small broken component that could be fixed to avoid unnecessary e-waste contributions and spending more money on consumption to fix a problem.
Typical enterprise server lifecycle is 4-6 years purposefully throws away uncertain remaining potential value because budgets needs to be spent, risk aversion to repairing what's considered "outdated", and possibly acquiring faster and more energy-efficiency equipment. I would guess it's about the same lifecycle length for enterprise and personal laptops too.
I do this at my homelab and it’s a really fun thing to do. Collect old laptops and install Linux or Tart for macOS and suddenly you have a fleet of computing power equivalent to paying thousands to AWS. Building reliability and failover is actually a fun engineering problem, use CockroachDB and RustFS. Adding capacity is just about scouting for second hand ewaste.
There is no way they are partnering with Hetzner, or charging just 7€/month flat rate... they specifically want to know the model of the laptop, and offer to send send a courrier to your door...
I would be really surprised if this was a scam. It doesn't have the smell of a scam at all. Who would target a very tech savvy audience just to get old laptops?
Given that the "sign up" link goes to a survey form, my guess is this is just some idea someone had and they made this page to see if anyone actually wants it before they put any effort into making it happen.
Colo scams are pretty common. Some percentage of people will offer to send expensive laptops, and the scammers can discard the rest of "interested customers".
It is inviable to colo old laptops, a regulatory nightmare - Hetzner would NEVER accept those in their datacenters. It is also absurd to think they are partnering with Hetzner to begin with.
It makes no sense to believe they will even EXPORT laptops from Europe to the US if you choose the US location. It just makes no sense, so I don't get why I am getting downvoted.
What's the difference between this and 1. setting my laptop at home and 2. connect it through Tailscale?
I lose ownership of my laptop, you install whatever software you want on it (with the security risks that it conveys) and in turn "you let me connect to my computer"?
Jokes on you I got a 20kWh backup UPS on the entire house.
Now on a serious note: internet can go down anywhere, even for them. There is nowhere stated that, if your old hardware misbehaves, you can use others, and there are privacy concerns with running your stuff on their software stack… So I don’t see a huge advantage honestly.
What’s the point if I can just connect it to my router and not pay any money to anyone, expect some electricity price, which would be like ten times cheaper. My old laptop is capable of a gigabit connection and so my home internet. That’s plenty for anything I can imagine.
Redundancy, I hear you saying! What if you’d have no electricity for an hour? OK then. I’d have another laptop at some else place then, and have two powerful servers for like still one fifth of the price. Can you beat that?
Hey, this is great. Many of my old laptops become my "servers", so I'd definitely pay for this.
One question I have, in case someone from CoLaptop is reading:
So, one time I had this White "Chiclet" MacBook and I had it powered on all the time, I didn't know at the time but that destroyed the battery and when I unplugged it/plugged it again (because I moved it to a different place after like 4 years) it just didn't power up, fortunately I was able to extract the HDD and its contents.
Now I have one old MacBook Air and one old MacBook Pro as "servers", and I regularly disconnect them from power (but keep them on), I do this for like a day every 3-4 weeks, and haven't had that issue, battery health is still good etc...
So, what do you recommend for this? Or is this something you'll do as part of the CoLo service?
Old laptops are also notorious[1] for being fire bombs with bad batteries.
If I was a hetzner customer I'd be pissed if my server burned because someone's 2 minute battery life 10 year old school pc was hosted in the neighbouring rack.
Doesn't seem like a great business idea.
[1]: anecdotally, seems everyone has a laptop lying around with a cursed battery
I have never colo'd my laptop, but I do work off my Windows laptop from my Mac via Parsec (remote viewing software for gaming) and by flipping system settings so my Windows machine never turns off when connected to the power bank and lid is closed. There are obviously hiccups (if internet goes out, if Windows decides to restart from an update, etc.), but it mostly just works and I think I've only had 2 instances in the past 3 months where it's gone offline. I use Tailscale on top to provide a universal mouse server for my 3d mouse, and I'm able to magically CAD from my Mac.
Highly recommend if you need to use one OS/machine for some specific software (especially if it's beefy/heavy) but prefer using another as your daily driver.
Not sure if this is legit... I could see it working well enough if they require the laptop to support at least say thunderbolt3/usb4 then they can use a single connection interface to a management/dock interface that includes a network connection (1gb/2.5gb)
The trouble is a lot of laptops won't power-on with the screen closed and have heavy sleep/suspend behaviors in general. Not to mention general airflow in whatever shelving system is used with the laptops, assuming 2-4 laptops per shelf, per 1u. Not to mention, one would probably want/need some means of ensuring appropriate driver support, or an appropriate Linux or other setup for said hardware.
While I can see it working, depending on shipping costs can definitely see some problematic bits.
Any recommendations on inexpensive colo for personal projects/servers? A few years ago ran across a few links for places to host a box and I didn't save them, and have regretted it.
ISTR one was basically just industrial office space that was running a lower-tier colo, and another was some guys in a metro area that got a rack in a data center and were spreading the cost around with other like-minded folks. At my work I have machines in an Iron Mountain facility, but for personal projects I don't need anything like that, but I'd like something that's more capable than AWS that I'm paying $80/mo for a couple VMs.
EC2 is pricey if it's all you're getting from AWS. If you have wierd requirements, colo may be a good option. Otherwise, just get a VPS or 3 and be done with it. You'll get a virtual KVM that lets you boot it off an ISO and set it up the way you want.
Vultr, DigitalOcean, Linode, ... are long established VPS players.
I'm cheap and buy VPSes off deals on lowendtalk.com. e.g. my backups are on a VPS with 3TB disk, 2GB RAM, 1 vCPU, USD7/mo. I suspect your USD80/mo budget would stretch to something amazing, by comparison.
I'm familiar with Vultr, DO, Linode, none of them seem to have pricing that is compelling beyond EC2. OVH and Hetzner have some potentially compelling plans, but then I'm only saving a little bit.
The call-out for colo is largely to save me from having to engineer a setup at my house for getting my Dell R720 with 256GB RAM online (switching to bridging, setting up a firewall/load balancer with backup, segmenting the networks). That does become easier if I decide I'm ok with 1gig rather than bumping it up to 10gig.
> Your laptop should be fully functional with a working power supply and either an ethernet port or USB port for connectivity. Age isn't a factor. We might modify your laptop to remove or power down the battery, wireless radios, etc. to ensure it can be used safely in the data center.
So they're going to open the laptop up and make hardware modifications to random laptops sent in? May as well have a VPS at that point.
A far better business offering would have been to offer pre-selected physical devices where such things are well known.
I had this idea for dirt-cheap colo where it's just a warehouse that has warehouse racks for putting whatever you want on the rack. Rates based on linear feet, bandwidth, and power consumption. Power would be delivered with a 15-minute uptime guarantee, meaning you have at least 15 minutes to gracefully shut down in the event of loss of power.
Advantage is reasonably secure location and quality Internet connection. Target market is nerds who don't want all that crap in their closets.
It's an interesting idea, and it might even work for some people who have overpowered gaming laptops that can't run Windows 11 (thanks, Microsoft!). But man, people have no idea how powerful just a few cores of a modern AMD EPYC are. Try a Linode instance with a few dedicated cores and see if that's competitive with shipping your old alienware to a colo.
A ton of old batteries in one place. The batteries themselves are probably not a concern, but if something happens to the facility, then you have a ton of problems.
Security of the facility is a concern if someone can get in and walk out with an armful of laptops.
Laptops don’t scale from a stacking stand point. Sure, close the lids and line them up. Then you’ll have a lot of failures. Older laptops are intended to cool through the keyboard and top vents by the screen.
The core density is really low. You can run a 96 core Epyc from the previous generation at 700 W and that’s a lot of compute. It makes sense for a home server (and I have an old Mac playing that role at home) but otherwise I don’t think it makes sense unless you’re taking off the display and racking them super tight.
Even then, you’re probably better off with Cloudflare tunnel and using it as a home server.
Finding laptops that can support multiple hard drives is becoming more challenging every year. The 15"-17" workstation class Dell Precision, Lenovo P*, HP Zbook, and Framework 16 laptops are well suited to this purpose. Some of them even came with Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM support.
I don't want to crap on peoples ideas. Really, I don't.
But getting some closet case computer with unknown hardware and turning it into a server, at scale, is an impossible scheme.
The only way to make it work would be to buy hundreds of laptops at once and refurb, new storage, and standardize with custom power delivery. Because who wants hundreds of laptop PSU's plugged into power strips. And those do in fact die.
And then there's the horror of manually removing wifi hardware and batteries. Battery disposal is an issue. And having worked on hundreds of laptops, some of them are major pains in the neck to get to the battery. Consumer HP's come to mind. The bottom cover can be difficult to remove without breaking any of the clips.
They remove the battery! That was my first question.
I have an old Lenovo laptop that works fine with the battery completely removed--but I have to disconnect the power and reconnect it before the soft power-on switch will work. I wonder how they handle powering on finicky laptops with those "soft" power buttons.
Let’s start a company that does this with old phones. If they’re recent waterproof models you could invert them in cold water and rack them pretty densely while managing heat easily. An ice water Beowulf cluster of iPhone 15s would be a lot of compute in one Yeti cooler.
i don't think phones are THAT watertight... they're not tested for long term submersion. usualy they don't even guarantee waterproof rating for more than first two years or when there are signs of wear. should work with some non-conductive oil or fluorintert tho...
I am surprised a serious facility would be happy having 100 old LiPo batteries in a rack. That is a (nasty) fire waiting to happen IMO. These are old batteries that may even have minor physical damage from being dropped and will be in maybe a ~25-30c environment.
I’m curious if they remove the displays. Not every laptop works with the display closed and it might cause heat issues that throttle the CPU or reduce the life of the machine to run it like that long-term.
Yea this is a stupid idea. Old laptops don't have good performance per watt compared to new servers once you factor in that they are many many times slower.
There is one scenario it would be good for. People running stock trading programs often need a better network and always on environment than they can get at home
Is it? It doesn't sound outragous to me, given that they provide you with however much power you need, ans also networking and people to maintain the facility.
I asked ChatGPT to estimate how much darwing 15W continuously in Amsterdam would cost you per month, and it came up with a range of 2.58€-3.41€ per month. So that's potentially more than half of their fee.
If your laptop is particularly power efficient, you'd also be subsidizing higher-powered laptops. As far as I see there's nothing preventing you from sending a 400W gaming laptop and mining crypto or running an LLM agent 24/7.
The cheapest USB KVM-over-IP costs about €50 - that's 8 months of colo fees gone.
Colo 'remote hands' in western countries can cost €120/hour, once all expenses and overheads are taken into account. Admittedly, that's for someone to drop what they're doing and rush to your sever. But getting that laptop unpacked, checked over, labelled, installed in a rack, associated to a customer account, powered up and working is going to cost 3 months of fees at least.
One laptop gets lost or damaged during shipping, or shows up mysteriously broken when the customer claims it worked when they sent it? That's a €200 device gone, 28 months of colo fees. You can argue your way out of it, but the guy doing the arguing is the €120/hour remote hands guy.
There's no way they're offering 24/7 KVM for this. Cheap colos you need to write / call to get an on demand KVM then wait some hours or days for a tech to plug it in.
The operator is in no way responsible for shipping damage, not sure why you imply they would be.
This particular project imply a financial commitment (it's not like you can walk to the data center right now with random assortment of laptops to be setup today without reserving a rack for a month or so), using a free hosting mean they didn't even spend the minimum.
If your 'project' can't allocate $15 for a domain name then you have a bigger problem with your project. Especially if your project involves taking money from customers.
That surely depends on a country. Data centre is still better in theory. But in practice, I have very little imagination to use a gigabit connection all to myself.
uh yeah i mean we 'colo' at work because its cheaper than buying a windows server with multiple RDP licenses. We have some legacy stuff that must be run on site.... so we buy $200 laptops and people can remote in for years.
This seems very sketchy. Give us your laptop and we promise we won't keep it...
> © 2024 CoLaptop. All rights reserved.
Website copyright is out of date by two years... And the website has been online since then. https://crt.sh/?q=colaptop.pages.dev
> Thank you for your interest. Please submit the form below and we'll get back to you within 2 working days.
> - Team @ CoLaptop.com
Also colaptop.com is not even registered anymore. If I had to guess the pages.dev site stayed up but the domain and email are nowhere.
> > © 2024 CoLaptop. All rights reserved.
> Website copyright is out of date by two years... And the website has been online since then. https://crt.sh/?q=colaptop.pages.dev
That's exactly what it should be then. A copyright notice lists the year of publication. Not the current year.
> A proper copyright notice consists of three elements: a © symbol, the year of publication, and the copyright owner’s name.
https://copyrightalliance.org/faqs/what-is-copyright-notice/
Yep. If you write
``` © <?=$currentYear?> Your Name ```
As many sites do, it may actually invalidate your copyright. You have to put all of the years when you made copyrightable edits to the page. A range like 2010-2025 is only allowed if every single year in that range is included.
This sounds like pseudolegal folklore (in the US at least). Do you have any actual examples where this affected a case?
In the US, you get copyright on your work automatically, with or without a label.
The only thing a label does in the US is defend against "innocent infringement" defenses. But even that defense doesn't absolve the other party from liability; you just can't recover as much.
There is no reason you can't have `(C) 200X-$currentYear Acme Inc` or whatever.
You're right that the notice is effectively useless for such web pages. And if it doesn't matter, then why bother to put anything?
Most people do so because everyone else does; it looks off if you don't see a copyright at the bottom of an otherwise professional site.
That doesn't look off.
What looks off is showing you don't know how copyright works by blindly putting the current year.
While this is certainly a creative way to interpret the copyright notice's date, I believe most people look at it as a "last updated" sort of thing.
Yet your earlier comment said "200x-$currentYear" not "200x-$modifiedYear" in reply to someone automatically inserting the year. That shows a misunderstanding of copyright AND an intent to mislead when you believe others view it as last updated.
You're better off omitting it entirely in generated web pages. No one cares unless they don't understand copyright, the year shown isn't the current year, and they're already looking to find fault. In other words, for those that treat it as last updated, they must already be struggling to find value when they scroll to your copyright notice, and at that point, after feeling the page looks stale, is seeing the current year going to change their mind?
I'm not sure what the point being made here even is, beyond arguing just to argue?
It does not matter in the US whether you use the current year or last modified date. At worst, omitting a date entirely makes it easier for the other guy to claim "innocent infringement", which only reduces your damages. Show me one US court case from this century where the tail of a date range had a material affect on the outcome.
Moreover, it is an objective fact that people use the current year and the modified year in web pages being written today. And based on the comment that kicked this whole chain off, clearly people are using it as a signal of when the page was changed.
1) You don't have to keep copyrights up to date (and in fact you don't have to put them at all), 2) Every single startup i've seen on HN is sketchy af. Racking laptops in a cage at a Hetzner DC is probably the least sketchy product i've seen here.
And honestly, not a terrible idea, I have old laptops that would work as a VPS. $7/month for somebody to host a public server for me, and not on my crappy residential isp? All I have to lose is an old laptop I haven't touched in 5 years? Sign me up
(they do need a real domain before i'll give them money tho, lol)
Yeah but for $6/mo you can get a tiny linode or digital ocean droplet, and not worry about hardware failing. It's true that a laptop probably has more resources than the smallest VMs, but no remote management interface and can't scale if you suddenly had a surge of traffic.
> Yeah but for $6/mo you can get a tiny linode or digital ocean droplet
That gets you, what, 1 "vCPU" with maybe a gig of ram and a couple of dozen gig of disk.
If you (or a friend) work for a company of any size, there's probably a cupboard full of laptops that won't upgrade to Win11 sitting there doing nothing that you could get for free just by asking the right person. It'll have 4 or 8 cores, each of which is more powerful that the "vCPU" in that droplet. It'll have 8 or maybe 16gig of ram, and at least half a TB of disk and depending on that laptop quite likely to be able to be configured with half a TB of fast nVME storage and a few TB of slower spinning rust storage.
If you want 8vCPUs/cores, 16GB of ram, and 500GB of SSD, all of a sudden Digital Ocean looks more like $250/month.
If you are somewhere in that grey area where you need more than ivCPU and 1GB of memory, grabbing the laptop out of the cupboard that your PM or one of the admin staff upgraded from last year and shipping not off to a datacenter with your flavour of linux installed seems like it's worth considering.
Hell, get together with a friend and have two laptops hosted for 14Euro/month between you, and be each others "failing hardware" backup plan...
> ...no remote management interface...
I bet colos will plug a KVM into your hardware and give you remote access to that KVM. I also bet rachelbythebay has at least one article that talks about the topic.
> ...can't scale if you suddenly had a surge of traffic.
1) If your public server serves entirely or nearly-entirely static data, you're going to saturate your network before you saturate the CPU resources on that laptop.
2) Even if it isn't, computers are way faster than folks give them credit for when you're not weighing them down with Kubernetes and/or running swarms of VMs. [0]
3) <https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/hotos15/hotos...> (2015)
[0] These are useful tools. But if you're going to be tossing a laptop in a colo (or buying a "tiny linode or [DO] droplet"), YAGNI.
>> ...no remote management interface...
> I bet colos will plug a KVM into your hardware and give you remote access to that KVM.
From the https://www.colaptop.com landing page: "Free KVM-over-IP access to your laptop - just like having it right next to you."
> From the https://www.colaptop.com landing page:
Yeah. I got bored a couple of hours after I posted that speculation and found several other colo facilities that mentioned that they'd do remote KVM. I'd figured that it was a common thing (a fair chunk of hardware you might want to colo either doesn't have IPMI or doesn't have IPMI that's worth a damn), but wasn't sure.
You really don't know how much it costs, do you?
Check https://tinypilotkvm.com/collections/all-products these are the cheapest ones.
MSRP for remote-capable KVMs is irrelevant.
You (the person paying to co-locate hardware) don't buy the KVM that the colo facility uses. The colo facility hooks up the KVM that they own to your hardware and configures it so that you can access it. Once you stop paying to colo your hardware, you take your hardware back (or maybe pay them to dispose of it, I guess) and they keep the KVM, because it's theirs.
I think a raspberry pi setup would be the cheapest? Not as professional perhaps.
k8s doesn't really weigh you down, especially if tuned for the low end use case (k1s). It encourages some dumb decisions that do, such as using Prometheus stack with default settings, but by itself it just eats a lot of ram.
Now using CPU limits in k8s with cgroups v1 does hurt performance. But doing that would hurt performance without k8s too.
> k8s doesn't really weigh you down, especially if tuned for the low end use case (k1s).
Sorry, what "k1s" are you referring to? The only projects with that name that I see are either cut-down management CLIs and GUIs that only work with a preexisting Kubernetes cluster, or years-old abandoned proof-of-concept/alpha-grade Kubernetes reimplementations that are completely unsuitable as a Kubernetes replacement.
The only actually-functional cut-down Kubernetes I'm aware of is 'minikube'. Minikube requires -at minimum- 2 CPUs, 2GB of RAM and 20GB of disk space. [0] That doesn't fit on either of the machines 'nrdvana' was talking about... not the "tiny ... digital ocean droplet", with its 1CPU, 1GB of RAM, and 25GB of disk space [1], nor the "tiny linode" (which has roughly the same specs [2]).
Given that it's not at all uncommon for discarded laptops to have 4 CPUs, 8GB of RAM, and like 250GB of disk, eating 1/4th of the RAM, (intermittently) half of the CPU power, and roughly a tenth of the disk space just for Kubernetes housekeeping kinda sucks. That's pretty damn "heavy", in my judgment. So. Do you have a link to this 'k1s' thing you were talking about? Does it use less than 2 CPUs, 2GB of RAM, and 20GB of disk?
[0] <https://minikube.sigs.k8s.io/docs/start/>
[1] <https://www.digitalocean.com/products/droplets#see-what-you-...>
[2] <https://www.akamai.com/cloud/pricing#title-7ba40063be> [3]
[3] Did you know that Linode got bought by Akami? I didn't!
Sorry I meant k0s. Off by one error at 3 am.
There are a couple of things here: first off, minikube isn't tuned for low resources, it's a full k8s packaged for developers. Second, it doesn't burn much CPU at all unless you blew it up and it's churning pods. Third, try to remember that you're running a tool that provides most of what you need to run a service, it's not a bare VM, it comes with reverse proxy, tons of tools, and cluster management.
Basically those minimal specs let you actually run quite a lot of stuff on that minikube, they're not just for the management system.
k0s needs roughly 500MB RAM and 1.5GB drive to run a controller+worker. Can probably pare k3s down to that as well.
And I repeat, this gets you single pane cluster management across all your laptops, reverse proxy, DNS, resource shaping, namespaces, etc. Only big problem with it is that adding distributed storage is quite heavy and unstable (longhorn) or really heavy (ceph), so storage management might need to be manual which is a pain in k8s.
> ...it doesn't burn much CPU at all unless...
You noticed that I said "(intermittently) half of the CPU power", yeah?
> Third, try to remember that you're running a tool that provides most of what you need to run a service...
I already get everything that I need to run a service with old-ass systems like OpenRC+netifrc or -hack, gag- systemd and its swarm of dependencies. "Run a service on a *nix box" is a thing that we've had pretty well nailed down for decades now. It is -after all- how the services that run Kubernetes get run. Do note that you're talking to someone who does Linux system administration both as a hobby and professionally.
> Sorry I meant k0s. Off by one error at 3 am.
Sure, no problem. Shit happens.
So, k0s? Compared to minikube, the official minimum spec tables [0] indicate that -if you colocate the controller and worker- it cuts the CPU and RAM needs in half, and cuts the disk space by a factor of ten. That's nice, but that's still an eighth of the RAM and (intermittently) a quarter of the CPU of our hypothetical-but-plausible castoff laptop. That's still a lot of resources. And compared to what it costs you, you don't get much. If we were talking about some big, bad, mutually-untrusted-multitenant situation, it could be worth the cost, but -despite what folks like the CNCF might like you to believe- that's not the only scenario out there.
Also Mirantis is responsible for k0s? [1][3] After their rugpull with their Openstack distro way back when, I don't trust that they'll keep maintaining and providing complex stuff that's free to use for long enough to make it worth making a critical part of one's business. (Yes, this has absolutely nothing to do with its resource usage. I'm absolutely not bringing it up to support that argument in any way. I "just" thought it important to mention that I don't trust that Mirantis's free stuff will continue to be free for long enough to safely build (more of?) your business on.)
[0] <https://docs.k0sproject.io/head/system-requirements/#minimum...>
[1] From [2] "Mirantis offers technical support, professional services and training for k0s. The support subscriptions include, for example, prioritized support (Phone, Web, Email) and access to verified extensions on top of your k0s cluster."
[2] <https://docs.k0sproject.io/head/>
[3] As additional evidence, the only two humans on the first page of commits to the k0s repo are Tom Wieczorek, whose Github profile indicates his affiliation with Mirantis [4], and Jussi Nummelin who is very, very obviously a Mirantis employee. [5] I tried to look at the complete Github contributor list for the k0s repo, but it simply wouldn't load. [6] But, I'd be shocked if this wasn't Mirantis's totally-functional-but-still-pet project that intends to more than make up the cost of development and maintenance with support contracts.
[4] <https://github.com/twz123>
[5] <https://www.mirantis.com/blog/authors/jussi-nummelin/>
[6] Github's "Zero nines of uptime" guarantee is rock solid and reliable!
Hey I'm not arguing that you in particular shouldn't use old tech for fun. Heck serve your emacs written internet website via nc from your Amiga for all I care.
I'm just pointing out that it's easy and sufficiently efficient to run k8s on old computers, which makes running homelabs quite easy and also allows projects such as the OP to really shine. You seem to really enjoy telling me how bad it is that k8s needs 0.05 CPU and 500MB of RAM to run but the thing is it will scale horizontally a lot, and also presents the APIs you'll be expected to know in a devops job in 2026.
> Website copyright is out of date by two years...
Can you explain how a copyright can be "out of date by two years"?
I always thought the copyright notice should reflect the year of creation, and that it's actually bad (from a legal POV) to always show the current year through scripting.
The problem is that the website says they are still working out the logistics details. If the company has been around for 2 years they should have figured that out and updated the page by now.
You are correct. (Had it verified years ago in Europe and the US).
> Give us your laptop
There's no way to read this without hearing Scottish accent. It's like a sleeper agent activation phrase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKfAjlW6E30
> Website copyright is out of date by two years
It's fixed now.
And someone bought the .com domain: https://crt.sh/?id=25447880244
The premise was kinda dumb, wouldn't be surprised if its just a scam.
So many people want to believe in this sort of thing for various reasons that I get fatigued at the very thought of trying to explain to people who believe in it earnestly that it is not a good idea. (e.g. commercial hosting services are really competitive; for a long time the cost of computing has been going down over time though I don't know if that is reversing because we've hit the end of the real Moore's law [1] or if it is a temporary blip)
[1] the motor behind it is cost reduction, once that stops it stops because we can't afford it anymore!
Well, it exists, but it exists if you’re willing to buy server hardware on eBay, hustle to get old parts working together, negotiate a good deal on a cabinet, get space from ARIN and announce it and so on. There are probably 10-50x cost efficiencies vs. renting 5 year old CPU families on AWS at huge markup.
A laptop isn’t the way to do that though. And your typical VC-fueled startup isn’t going to know how to do it either. It takes a very narrow slice of competence to be able to do that correctly.
the one guy I know who has worked with colo at scale (unfortunately in the crypto space) is now an EM at Goog
More likely a prank.
I think it's most likely testing the waters for a real offering. It's not that weird. Many colo data centers already have policies about hosting laptops because it's already something that happens. It just isn't common and usually isn't for hosting servers.
If the battery in the laptop is still good, it comes with it's own UPS. My MBPs haven't had an ethernet port in a minute, so do you have to supply your own adapters as well??? You could fit ~15 MBPs on their edge in 9RUs. That'd be an interesting looking rack. Not quite a blade chassis. It'd be rather boring looking as there's no blinky-blinkies
Putting a UPS in a rack is a prosumer/corporate IT thing, it’s not done in real datacenters.
They typically have their own UPS in another room and multiple power lanes. And it’s going to be much more reliable than a laptop battery.
I didn't really think that any of what I wrote would be taken seriously to the point of needing a retort. I mentioned blade servers and knew rack unit measurements which as context clues would have suggested I was familiar with actual data center equipment.
I read the reply to your comment not as much as an answer to your statement but a general warning to anyone who might be reading.
A laptop battery would be a huge liability if it caught fire.
And yet most homes and offices are full of them. Laptop batteries don't usually catch fire. At the colos I am familiar with (which have pretty strict rules, generally), you can have equipment with batteries as long as you regularly inspect them.
If you got creative with cable management you might be able to double up front and rear. It would probably be a PITA to manage but you could probably get some halfway decent density
Looks like they were proposing supplying usb Ethernet adapters, which doesn’t seem crazy, they’re cheap.
> You could fit ~15 MBPs
15 MBP x €7 = €105 for 9RU with power and network. Not in a million years.
Hetzner rents you 42RU for €199 plus power and network. If we assume they can fill the entire rack, that's 4 9RU units for about €50 plus power and network.
If we assume an average power draw of 20W per laptop, that's 300W for each 15 laptop unit, or about €57/month in Hetzner's Finish DC (including aircon)
Not sure about network. A 1Gbit uplink with 10TB traffic (and €1/TB after that) is provided. Upgrading that to 10Gbit is probably similar to the €51/month cost for the same uplink for dedicated servers, so another €15 for each 15 laptop unit. Plus around €2/month/IP, but you can probably bring your own if you find a cheaper subnet to buy
So yeah, you are right that the math does not work out. But it is pretty close to break even. I think you can break even on this if you find a more space efficient way to cram them into the rack and don't pay yourself any salary
https://www.hetzner.com/colocation/
I would like to put my Raspberry Pi Pico in colocation, would it work?
There are a number of places that colocate normal Raspberry Pi.
https://lowendbox.com/blog/little-machines-in-big-datacenter...
I am sure that some of them either already colocate Pico ones too, or are willing to do so if asked.
The Pi Pico doesn't have networking capabilities, so that would be silly. You're probably thinking of the Pi Zero.
There is a Pico W
The title says PoC, so I presume it's a PoC.
It looks like since you posted your comment, the pages.dev link redirects to colaptop.com, and the copyright notice has been updated to 2026.
It could be a pre-sales site to estimate demand.
Colocating itself, though isn't new at all. Lots of different ways to host, including servers, mac minis, laptops are conceivable too because they share the same kinds of parts that mac minis might have.
Also, isn't this just a huge fire hazard of they actually do what they claim? Or will they remove the batteries from these old, continually plugged in, poorly cooled laptops?
This is addressed on their site.
> We might modify your laptop to remove or power down the battery, wireless radios, etc. to ensure it can be used safely in the data center.
In 2026 it should be: Give us your smartphone and we promise ...
I mean the idea has merit in of itself, but I think this should be more of an on-prem thing, just repurposing old laptops junked by IT as servers.
What if it’s a compute Ponzi scheme?
Maybe I'm in the minority... but this seems like an extremely compelling offering for certain use-cases. Not for enterprises, but for individuals and small businesses.
My off-site backup is a thinkpad x230 with a 1 TB HDD. It's currently at my friends house, and I access it with tailscale. 7 eur/month to colocate this in a datacenter with stable (and fast) Internet + power seems like a pretty good deal.
I can understand some of the concerns with user-provided hardware. Maybe a better model, would be for CoLaptop to offer hardware themselves. This would allow them to standardize on a few models, which opens up many possible improvements such as central DC power, power efficient BIOS settings, enclosures with cooling ducts, etc. They can still follow the "old laptop as a server" model by buying off-lease laptops from the corporate world.
I mean we literally did this in one of my previous places. We took all the old laptops that were to be junked by IT, and used them as a selenium test farm. We saved like $100k per month on the AWS bill at the cost of basically electricity.
If all the machines were running Windows, the difference would've been even more drastic.
What I dont get is that we have these autoscaling technologies that allow software to be fault tolerant to hardware failure, yet companies still insist on buying expensive server grade HW for everything.
Been through this recently in a fairly large enterprise
We have some in house software which runs in k8s. Total throughput peaks at about 1mbit a second of control traffic - it's controlling some other devices which are on dedicated hardware. Total of 24GB of ram.
The software team say it needs to run across 3 different servers for resilience purposes.
The VM team want to use neutronix as their VM platform, so they can live migrate one VM to another.
They insist on 25gbit networking, and for resilience purposes that needs to be mlagged
The network team also have to have multiple switches and routers, again for resilience.
So rather than having 3 $1000 laptops running bare metal kubes hanging off a pair of $500 1G switches eating maybe 200W, we have a $140k BOM sucking up 2kW.
When something goes wrong all those layers of resilience will no doubt fight each other. The hardware drops, so the VM freezes as it restored onto another host, so K8s moves the workloads, then the VM comes back, the k8s gets confused (maybe? I don't know how k8s works).
It's all needlessly overspecced costing 30 times as much as it should.
But from each individual team it makes sense. They don't want to be blamed if it doesn't work, they don't have to find the money. It's different departments.
One of my favorite bits of hardware is a UPS. I’ve played with several over the years, from fancy server-grade rack-mount APC stuff to inexpensive edge stuff. Without exception, downtime is increased by use of a UPS. I used to plug a server with redundant PSUs into the UPS and the wall so it could ride out UPS glitches.
Even today, a UPS that turns itself back on after power goes out long enough to drain the battery and is then restored is somewhat exotic. Amusingly, even the new UniFi UPSes, which are clearly meant to be shoved in a closet somewhere, supposedly turn off and stay off when the battery drains according to forum posts. There are no official docs, of course.
Sounds like crappy UPSes. Even the cheap old used eBay Eaton UPSes I have in my homelab have a setting for "Auto restart" and the factory default setting is "enabled".
But even rackmount UPSes are more of an "edge" sort of solution. A data center UPS takes up at least a room.
I assume that datacenters UPSes are better, but I’ve never used one except as a consumer of its output.
But I’ve had problems with UPSes that advertise auto-restart but don’t actually ship with it enabled. And that fancy APC unit was sold by fancy Dell sales people and supported directly by real humans at APC, and it would still regularly get mad, start beeping, and turn off its output despite its battery being fully charged and the upstream power being just fine (and APC’s techs were never able to figure it out either).
> I assume that datacenters UPSes are better [...]
I don't know about specific datacenter models, but in our colocation there are humans available 24/7. So the UPS might not start after failure, but there's a human to figure it out.
Most (all?) decent datacenters also have generators on site, and the intent is that the UPS will never run out of charge. So the fully-discharged case is an error and it might be intentional to require intervention to recover.
Yeah, some people treat UPSes as "backup power" but that's not really what they're intended for. Their intended purpose is to bridge the gap during interruptions... either to an alternative power source, or to a powered-off state.
Sure, but when you stick a UPS in the closet to power your network or security cameras or whatever for a little while if there is a power interruption, you expect:
a) If the power is out too long for your UPS (or you have solar and batteries and they discharge overnight or whatever) that the system will turn back on when the power recovers, and
b) You will not have extra bonus outages just because the UPS is in a bad mood.
I completely agree with B. But alas, people love buying shitty cheap UPSes.
But A is along the lines of the misconception that I'm referring to... There should be no such thing as "the power being out too long for your UPS". A UPS isn't there to give you a little while to ignore the problem, it's there to give you time to address it. Either by switching to another source of power, or to power off the equipment.
Now, the reason that every UPS that supports auto-restart has it as a configurable option, is because you often don't want to do this for many reasons, e.g.:
* a low SOC battery could not guarantee a minimum runtime for safe shutdown during a repeated outage
* a catastrophic failure (because the battery shouldn't be dead) could be an indication of other issues that need to be addressed before power on
* powering on the equipment may require staggering to prevent inrush current overload
The whole use case of "I'm using the UPS to run my equipment during an outage" is kind of an abuse of their purpose. It's commonly done, and I've done it myself. But it's not what they're for.
But also, if you want a UPS that auto-restarts -- they exist -- but you get what you pay for.
Some of these is IMO a bit silly:
> a low SOC battery could not guarantee a minimum runtime for safe shutdown during a repeated outage
A lot of devices are unconditionally safe to shut down. Think network equipment, signs, exit lights, and well designed computers.
> a catastrophic failure (because the battery shouldn't be dead) could be an indication of other issues that need to be addressed before power on
This is such a weird presumption. Power outages happen. Long power outages happen. Fancy management software that triggers a controlled shutdown when the SOC is low might still leave nonzero remaining load. In fact, if you have a load that uses a UPS to trigger a controlled shutdown, it’s almost definitional that a controlled shutdown is not a catastrophe and that the system should turn back on eventually.
All of your points are valid for serious datacenter gear and even for large server closets, but for small systems I think they don’t apply to most users, and I’m talking about smaller UPSes.
> > a low SOC battery could not guarantee a minimum runtime for safe shutdown during a repeated outage
> A lot of devices are unconditionally safe to shut down.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean you want to expose them to brownout conditions when your UPS is depleted. If the power is continuing to flip on and off, it's better to just leave it off if you don't have the battery to prevent even short interruptions. A good UPS can do this automatically for you. A cheap one will just stay off and let you respond to the outage.
> This is such a weird presumption.
It wasn't a presumption I was making for all users -- but an example of why some users might not want auto-restart as a feature. Of course, if you want auto-restart as a feature, you can buy a UPS that has it as a feature and turn it on.
> they don’t apply to most users, and I’m talking about smaller UPSes.
Yeah, I know the situation: Someone has a network closet on a budget with a UPS they've sized to get them a few minutes of runtime. They put a UPS on the BOM because it checks a box. So they buy a low-end UPS that either doesn't have the feature, or it doesn't work right.
The solution is just to buy the right UPS for the thing they were trying to do... and test it.
The funniest thing about huge enterprises is that they often have processes so convoluted and restrictive for everything, that getting stuff done by the book is basically impossible, so people get creative with the limitations and we often end up with the sketchiest solutions in existence.
I hope the words 'web server hosted in Excel VBA' illustrate the magnitude of horrors that can emerge in these situations.
Raspberry pi on a network controlled power supply to rebroadcast udp broadcast traffic across subnets
I saw an entire physical switch configured for bridging VLANs. It was even labeled as such. 802.1q is hard and confusing if you don't know what you're doing.
which is exactly why this being different departments makes no sense
one infra team - provides the entire platform
any other approach and you’re dicking around
Enterprise hardware has companies that your company can call to get support when things go sideways, if they're using a rack full of 5 year old Thinkpads then they're on their own if something breaks
I believe they are referring to the dumpster support model. The hardware is so cheap that, if it fails, you toss it in a dumpster and buy more by the gross. Using Kubernetes to spread loads across your less reliable nodes ensures high availability. Sometimes this can be even more reliable because you are regularly testing your recovery and backup features and your hardware is more varied.
The downside is that if some piece of firmware or hardware has a vulnerability you have a larger attack surface.
There's a ton of out-of-support enterprise gear racked up in data centers. It can be done if you have a plan to handle failures.
But that's still a lot easier than managing laptops, which are unwieldily in a DC for a lot of other reasons.
We didn't have support, and we didn't need it, as the hardware was essentially EOL, probably would've been sold for like 20% of new price. We just chucked Selenium grid on them, locked them in the storage room, and if they died, they died (they didn't die a lot tho, which is surprising, as we had quite a few cheap sketchy in there as well)
I can deconstruct my workflow to the point where the benefits of plugging outdated hardware into the project are calculable. Info, transformation, etc I don't need in near real time feels like it's trending towards the price of electricity.
Since I've been looking at this situation from a resource point of view for a bit I see obvious savings in slowing down certain accepted processes. For example, an entity that continuously updates needs to be continuously scraped while an entity that publishes once a day needs to be hit once a day.
Seems like they'd have to find another 5 year old Thinkpad.
> What I dont get is that we have these autoscaling technologies that allow software to be fault tolerant to hardware failure, yet companies still insist on buying expensive server grade HW for everything.
Simple: the cost of managing the hardware scales with its heterogenity and reliability. Even just dealing with the dozens of different form factors (air vent placement!) and power units of laptops would be a big headache.
> We saved like $100k per month on the AWS bill
Did you also compare the bill to places that are not AWS, not Azure, and not GCP?
I would agree with you about autoscaling if ECC was enabled in every consumer computer :'/
I'd like to be able to do something similar, but the old batteries in these things seem like a point of catastrophic failure. How is that dealt with?
Remove the batteries. Datacenters have redundant power and UPS.
If it's an offsite backup, you would deal with it like you would any DR site-- either plan for yet another backup, or presume that it's unlikely that both the primary and replica would go down simultaneously and accept the risk.
where is the difference in paying 7 USD per month to get some gigabytes at whatever online hoster?
> Your old laptop packs more CPU power, RAM, and storage than their entry-level offerings - and with us, you'll pay just €7/month for professional hosting
This is basically the same price as the cheapest options on Hetzner: https://snipboard.io/C9epWo.jpg. Sure my old laptop does have more RAM and a bigger SSD, but I bet it's also less reliable than Hetzner's servers, and is likely to suddenly die some day. So is the tradeoff really worth it? It's hard for me to believe that this is a genuine improvement for most things. The only definite winning case I can think of is if I have a process I want to run, but I don't care if it just suddenly stops working. But when would that ever be the case? and to save a couple dollars per month?
Edit: Maybe this is what github is doing :P
> I bet it's also less reliable than Hetzner's servers, and is likely to suddenly die some day
I’m a happy Hetzner customer but I have had servers that I rented from them die a couple of times.
I rent physical servers from them that have been previously rented to other customers. At some point hard drives fail.
However, I have solid backup setup in place (ZFS send and recv to other physical hosts in different physical locations) with that in mind, so I haven’t lost data with Hetzner. But if I naively did not have any backup then data would have gotten lost a couple of times.
Well, yeah, but that's not really a Hetzner thing. That's just computers in general.
Just monitor them so you can act proactively.
Of course. Just pointing out that even if the hardware might be server grade, doesn’t mean one can assume that the risk of hardware failure is negligibly low. And that one always needs to have offsite backups.
> I rent physical servers from them that have been previously rented to other customers. At some point hard drives fail.
The comparison in this case is to Hetzner's VPS offerings, which are probably less powerful than the average "old laptop" but have a significant advantage in terms of hardware reliability. It's still possible for the host running the VPS to have problems which result in a crash or the VM equivalent of a hard power off but the VM hosts and their underlying storage should be redundant such that the virtual hardware never fails.
That's not to say rebooting from a crash-consistent state will always work, you should always keep backups even with a high-quality VPS host, but the odds of recovering cleanly from a hardware problem are orders of magnitude better than an old laptop. For the sort of hobby project or personal tinker box that would be reasonable to host on a random laptop shoved in a rack you probably wouldn't even notice the downtime until you saw the event notification email your provider sends you.
I've run a 7 figure business from an SSD shoved in a sata2 DVD-ROM slot in a DC because the end customer was being obtuse about upgrading from their "high end, best practice" raid 10 discs.
You use so many big words for nothing. All you need are backups. When it dies you restore. Nobody will care.
Not sure how Hetzner works, but do they have IDRAC type access to their servers and/or remote hands available to fix stuff? Guess you'd be on the hook for that sort of thing here, making the Hetzner price more appealing if they do include that kind of functionality.
For physical machines of course yes.
The linked one is VPS, so all trouble fixing is easier.
> Edit: Maybe this is what github is doing :P
Announcing the new "mobile" tier on azure.
I work for IPinfo and we operate a distributed network consisting of around 1,400 servers. I think we have reached a point where it is extremely hard for us purchase VPSes from interesting ASNs.
To support lots of ISPs, universities, and different organizations we have been asking them if they have an old laptop lying around that they can host our software on. Goal is to reach 70,000 probes within the next couple of years.
It is a simple probe software and we share some data or we can pay 20-30 bucks a month for it. We have a couple of NUCs in remote regions but no laptops yet. Basically, we are even happy if an ISP (or any one) hosts our software from a laptop dangling by a charging cable from a socket in some random corner.
We can send over a RPI or NUC, but with remote hands, and setup and all that it can get quite expensive. So, we always first ask if they have an old laptop lying around and can install our software there.
For us, at least, we are not interested in the hardware aspect. We are interested in the network. The old laptop approach only acts as a last resort. We will be more than happy to go with the predictability of a traditional VPS hosted in a traditional data center. Colocation, no matter what form it takes, involves a lot of moving parts.
Interesting challenge! My first thought: 70k probes is a lot and having to set that up is quite a task. Why not develop an phone app with exit node capabilities (similar to Tailscale) so you can use that for probing? The real win is that people move around, obtaining you even more data points from other network.
We actually have app-based data collection capabilities and initiatives. Our goal, or more appropriately, vision, is to map the internet in real time. This involves SSH access to devices to run different forms of measurements at a very high frequency and have control over those devices.
Managing 70k probes is not going to be super hard.
Managing 1,400 servers is just a normal business operation, not a technical challenge. Each probe has a standard OS-level configuration. Automation and configuration are deployed from a central system. Each probe is actively monitored and troubleshot. Data is dumped to a data warehouse. We make incremental improvements to our network. When servers go down, we talk to vendors.
We do a lot of novel engineering things from the infrastructure, data, and research team. Having a very identical set of servers really allows us to focus on product and performance engineering, not troubleshooting engineering. With application-based probing, I assume it will complicate things quite a bit, as there are different operating systems, different devices, etc.
For us, lately the challenge is not technical. It has been exclusively procurement. This quarter (https://ipinfo.io/blog/probenet-q1-2026-expansion), we exclusively focused on regional diversity which involved outreach to national ISPs or telecoms. Securing servers from telecoms is an extremely bureaucratic and expensive process. So, we are hoping to partner up with eyeball networks and the larger NOG community.
Great idea but is this real?
Its a page hosted on CLoudFlare's "pages.dev" service. Their method of contact is a Google Form which does have an email address on this domain "CoLaptop [dot] com", but that as a web address does not work.
I'm not sure they have their act together.
Maybe it's someone's old project idea that they never got around to finishing, and OP randomly found it and posted it here. Maybe it was never meant to be shared.
The folks that run the colo I keep our servers in would beat me to death with a shoe if I did either of these things:
- Mount something in a rack not firmly attached to brackets or a shelf
- Install anything with a battery larger than you'd find in a RAID card
Not to mention all the other ways this is sub-par in terms of airflow, density, serviceability, out-of-band management, etc.
I get the allure of it, but I wouldn't really want my gear anywhere near a bunch of laptops stuck in a cabinet.
It’s not about your battery, it’s the battery in all the other laptops that would have me concerned. Plenty of fire risk.
Not just the batteries. User supplied power bricks sounds like an incredibly bad idea at pretty much any scale.
Wait, power bricks are a fire hazard?
Yep. Reputably manufactured ones (Dell, HP, Apple, etc) are probably fine.
But the cheapo replacement ones that you see people buy from Amazon, Ali Express, Ebay, etc... can be really not good. :(
User supplied ones are. Frayed wires galore
Not sure why the comment above is downvoted, but I have been twice in the same room with somebody's power brick starting producing fumes while dying.
They say:
> We might modify your laptop to remove or power down the battery
Old laptops as low cost servers? Absolutely, build a homelab in your own basement, rent a cheap VPS, set up wireguard and viola - instant data center for tens of dollars per month. It's not production grade but you'll learn a ton.
But colocation?
Strip away the learning component and add production uptime requirements - why would you even consider using crusty old laptops for this? If you have production grade needs, look to a standard cloud provider or, at the very least, a colo facility where you can put production-grade equipment.
They aren't targeting big companies for sure, but maybe a small or medium-sized office could make use of this.
I don't see it. Hobby projects can use a VPN tunnel to make a data center from local equipment. Real projects that choose colocation have uptime requirements that simply can't be met by random consumer hardware. The venn diagrams don't intersect.
There's no middle ground where you try to run a real business on old laptops. That's insane. You either keep things small/hobby and stay simple, or graduate to production-grade equipment once you have real requirements.
The middle ground, taking on production colocation problems plus the unreliability of random hardware, sounds like the worst of both worlds. There are both simpler and more robust options.
The problem with hosting locally is using residential internet.
In Australia, for example, we're capping out at 100Mbit/s upload speeds on plans that cost ~US$70/mo and regularly go down for maintenance.
In other countries with cheap symmetrical plans this may make more sense.
Initially I believe Google was known for getting unreliable hardware with good software to manage it (a single laptop probably won't cut it, but a bunch of laptops scattered around the globe could be interesting -- when you grow things fail all the time anyways).
They aren't targeting no one (and looks like they aren't at all).
Just do the math: for a measly €2000 a month, a salary of a cashier in Amsterdam, you already need to have 285 clients - and this is without taxes and revenue.
I have always dreamed of substituting a really expensive rack of servers with a couple of elderly laptops, with their built in UPS, handy screens, keyboards and trackpads. However, for pet projects, I now have a better way of being cheapskate.
Some ecommerce software stacks really need gargantuan amounts of RAM and CPU, which gets expensive on the cloud. However, it is possible with some software to have everything massively cached, with the cloud doing that, with the origin server in my basement, only accessible from the allowed cache arrangement, therefore having the setup reasonably secure and cheap.
Downsides to this, having customer details in the basement rather than a secure facility, but how many developers have huge customer databases just casually lying around on USB sticks and whatnot? It happens.
Don't use "the cloud", rent a moderately-priced server. This "cloud" fetishism (that means AWS/Azure/GCP) has led to billions of dollars in unnecessary revenue for those companies and unnecessary expenses for the rest of the world.
> it is possible with some software to have everything massively cached, with the cloud doing that, with the origin server in my basement, only accessible from the allowed cache arrangement
Do you mean a setup like:
Or something else?"build a homelab in your own basement, rent a cheap VPS, set up wireguard and viola"
Put an openwrt router in front of your fat server, and for each query it sends a WOL packet to the box, and add some delay to an ethernet bridge.
That was the fat server is mostly sleeping, and only woken up when needed.
The advantage of a laptop is exactly that you can easily host it at home, and own everything. I have one - with an UPS also holding the router and fiber optic and an external HDD. I'm actually working right now to version 2.0 which is a beefed up version - still used laptop (found a great deal on a lenovo P1), but slightly more expensive and I'm waiting on some parts to upgrade. Should be able to even hold the production environment in a pinch.
Ah, and obviously you put a claude/codex on it, so your actual work is just ... installing claude, and maybe a linux. The rest is done by the AI - setup, scripting etc.
As a colocated option... I see it work for some people. But it'd be a niche offering, when the whole value proposition is "make my own, with blackjack and hookers".
It's ok if you can physically remove the battery. I'm pretty sure to have read multiple times that laptops thermals and battery engineering are optimized for daily use in open areas, not to safely run workloads 24/7 in a closet.
My home lab rack is a toast rack. Literally, that's how I hold the laptops vertically so they get decent airflow, and it also makes for very easy access. As soon as you go past one laptop it's a thing.
A lot of residential ISPs are hostile to hosting servers in various ways.
Do you not get memory errors without ECC RAM?
There are laptops with ECC RAM, but they are uncommon.
Otherwise, the effect of memory errors depends on the use case.
If the laptop or mini-PC is used as a router/firewall/Internet gateway, then memory errors are usually not important, because they would result in corrupted network packets that are likely to be detected at the endpoints of a network connection.
If the laptop or mini-PC is used as an e-mail server or a Web server, then a fraction of the memory errors may result in a stored file that becomes corrupted.
At the small amounts of memory typical for a laptop or mini-PC, unless the PC is many years old there should be no more than a few memory errors per year at most, and the majority of the errors might not result in file corruption, but sometimes they may cause weird behavior requiring a computer reboot.
Anecdotally, during the years I have seen on the Internet a non-negligible amount of big files, e.g. movies, which appear to have bit flips that are likely to have been caused by their hosting on servers without ECC memory. Fortunately, in movies a small number of bit flips will not cause severe quality degradation.
With more valuable data, one must use ECC memory to avoid such problems.
Just gonna point this out since I noticed it a few weeks ago and notice is still there, Hetzner has paused selling new colocation service: https://www.hetzner.com/colocation/
So this is probably a joke site or a scam.
Perhaps they just want to steal the parts out of the laptops. If they swindled 5K rubes out of their machines, that's a lot of resale money, no?
The site is a couple of years old and the domain it refers to is not the one linked here, it is probably an abandoned idea.
> We're based in Amsterdam and aim to work with Hetzner
I wonder if Hetzner knows their aim.
> We might modify your laptop to remove or power down the battery, wireless radios, etc. to ensure it can be used safely in the data center.
Yeah, just use the DC's UPS.
Ran an old laptop as home server for years.
It’s OKish as a starting point into selfhosted world but overall not ideal. The battery is a fire risk and the entire thermal design isn’t really geared towards 24/7 operation.
Not really something I’d co locate unless it was a DC physically near me so that stopping by is easy
> The battery is a fire risk and the entire thermal design isn’t really geared towards 24/7 operation.
I remember having this old Dell Latitude, where you could easily swap out the battery pack with a button/tab thing on the back, without having to open anything else up - I even got a spare bigger capacity battery, but it would work without one altogether when connected to the power brick.
I unironically think that all laptops should be built like that.
I recall that being the case; my impression is that a major difference between laptops and smartphones is that when plugged in, the laptop bypasses the battery to draw power directly, rather than charging the battery and then drawing power from it. My previous Thinkbook 14+ had an issue where the Type-C charging port would occasionally have a poor connection. When this happened, the device would lose power immediately, and restarting it required BitLocker verification.
First thing I learned attempting the same is that lid open vs closed are two very different situations in terms of thermals.
But overall without aggressive throttling these devices work a maximum of half an hour before the components get saturated with heat and performance tanks.
Yup. Gaming laptops with dedicated GPUs tend to fare better on this because internally the CPU and GPU is often bridged with a heat pipe and shared cooling
So thermals are specd for both running at same time but you only need CPU for home server so shouldn’t throttle
Also running laptops as 4fun home servers and first thing I do is removing battery, removing whole chassis, even with screen.
You don't need any of those.
I assume this startup yanks all the batteries and runs them in a rack with a UPS.
The FAQ says: > We might modify your laptop to remove or power down the battery
But powering down battery is not enough against the fire risk. Servers get hot 24/7 and might still overheat the battery.
Funny, I had a similar idea this morning in the shower. I was thinking about how distributed digital infrastructure could be achieved in practice. Running some music streaming and photo server on an old laptop at home that I access via tailscale has proved surprisingly smooth. I feel there is some future in empowering users by giving them access to a cloud on hardware that is actually owned by the user. It would be a way to achieve absolute digital freedom, no lock-in and if done in a secure way privacy friendly. Hell it's the OG idea of the internet! The question is how to bring this to non-technical users. I know many people who are getting sick of paying each month both to Apple and Google for storing their ever growing pile of pictures. This solution of course does imply some sort of lock-in as your tied to a subscription and it's probably quite the hassle to get your laptop back. Also the fire hazard seems like a legit concern. I nevertheless do hear some music here.
Eeek, I can't imagine what this is like if it scales. What happens to the fire risk when theres 20,000 laptops with aging batteries all sitting together? I hope they take the batteries out, however many laptops use batteries to smooth out power fluctuations.
Laptops aren't designed to be servers - peg your laptop CPU and GPU at 100% and see how long it lasts, I've done this before and the answer is about "2 months", yep sure, this effort isn't targeting that workload, but how many bad apples does it take to start a fire? In their page they say "kubernetes server - no problem" kubernetes DOES keep the CPUs busy, not pegged, but busy enough so that they wont step down their frequency.
I admire the effort to reuse old tech, but boy oh boy would I not want to be a sysadmin here!
I worked for a place that did something akin to this in the early 2010s. Someone figured out how to add 32-bit company laptops to the virtualization cluster (likely because they were using one as a stand in for a server that at the time would have been in the works but not yet purchased) and so once that work had been incurred they just kept "retiring" unserviceable company laptops to the cluster. Imagine a standard wire metro-rack crammed in a telecom closet beside a normal server rack. Now imagine that metro rack literally full of Toshiba Satellite Pro's from about 2005-9. The cluster hosted virtual machines for testing.
No fires, no hardware problems. No special cooling other than the mini-split that was in the closet to cool the server rack. They just kept trucking. But modern hardware is much more high strung and I don't doubt you'd have weird failures.
Edit: Back then VMs were how things were done and RAM was seemingly always the bottleneck by a mile, so the cluster did add up to a meaningful amount of extra performance compared to not having it.
My old Lenovo t420 has been running 24/7 pegged as a multi-camera DVR since 2011, no issues whatsoever. Of course the battery is removed, but I don't see many decent laptops struggling running under load for prolonged periods.
Say what you want about an old laptop, they sure are a lot faster than a $150/mo azure VM. And to be clear, I mean a _LOT_ faster.
All the big 3 cloud providers suck if you use them purely as VPS. I’ve tried AWS Lightsail (basically, slightly cheaper EC2) and it’s so much slower than what I’d expect from a similar spec VM from a normal hosting provider.
Hetzner, DigitalOcean, OVH, Vultr are some of the better-known ones. Personally, I’m very happy with SSD Nodes. Paying $90/yr for a 4 vCPU¹ / 16 GB / 320 GB SSD, had some downtime exactly once in two years (they’ve had to switch their IPv4 space in Tokyo). Affiliate link: https://ale.sh/r/ssdnodes
[1]: Intel Xeon E5-2650 v4 (4) @ 2.199GHz – not great, I know, but to reiterate: that’s for $90 a year.
I looked it up for specifics.
Right now the closest I can see is that $121/mo gets you 4 Xeon Platinum 8370C cores and 16GiB of RAM [0] (storage not included!).
Somebody Geekbenched that config here [1] 1274 single core 4256 multi core.
Thats kinda terrible ngl. A mini pc with last gen mobile parts like Ryzen 5 7640HS gets 2610 single and 10768 multi core [2].
[0] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/virtual-ma...
[1] https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/17547159
[2] https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/17541586
I feel like Azure and AWS are both getting worse. I logged into a VM I haven't used in some time and was immediately shocked at just how slowly it rendered even the most basic UI elements.
That’s saying a lot about azure, not the laptops.
Have an old Mac book pro sitting in my office as a self hosted Mac GitHub runner and it works great.
My biggest complaint used to be that it would occasionally restart after a system update and I’d have to unlock FileVault in person, but macOS 26 now allows unlocks over ssh.
Suppose we set aside the concerns in this thread about the legitimacy of this.
How would this work when the old hardware inevitably needs to be serviced (mechanical hard drive failure, memory errors, dust buildup, etc)?
Would they have technicians on-site available to service whatever random laptop you send them? If your laptop dies do they ship it back to you so you can fix it and send it back?
Or what if you bork the OS by accident? Will their KVM solution allow you to upload an ISO and plug it in over some USB drive emulation?
Collocation data centers have “remote hands” technicians for these types of tasks.
Collocating a bunch of lithium-ion heat pillows all in one place, what could go wrong!
Most laptops work perfectly fine with the battery removed and for those who cannot replacing it with a large capacitor is usually a solution.
Using a capacitor sounds interesting but also pretty tricky, have you done that yourself?
I didn't as I never had a laptop with this issue but I have seen it done on a smartphone.
I thought a lot of laptops don't work without the battery, especially the increasingly common unibody types.
Hmm, there's might something to this:
+ The usual limiting factor in data centers is power, so laptops could be more optimized for greater cycle efficiency per power than comparable old servers.
+ Laptops are generally compact and so achieve greater rack densities than individual co-lo servers. I'm thinking about 34 or 51 laptops could be stored in 9 or 10U either 2 or 3 rows deep by 17 wide.
+ Shipping a laptop to a co-lo data center is cheaper than a 1U server.
~ Reusing electronics saves e-waste and reduces unnecessary consumption, either old servers or old laptops.
- Laptops lack ECC RAM.
- Laptops typically don't use nearly as fast CPUs or RAM as contemporaneous servers.
- Laptops are limited in their storage options.
- Laptops lack remote, lights-out management of real servers.
- Repairing old failed laptop components is more difficult than old servers.
~ Old laptops tend not to have usable batteries, so there's unlikely to be much an inherently distributed battery backup capability.
- Old laptop batteries of various origins could be a li-ion NMC fire hazard at scale.
~ Reusing old stuff at any sort of scale would prefer standardization, and it's sometimes difficult to amass many of the same discontinued model.
Conclusion: Do it if it works for you. It's kinda cool.
I think it's one of those ideas that only works with nostalgia or hoarding impulses to support it.
I think normal virtualization approaches are far more power efficient, at a fleet level, than any kind of cluster of laptop scenarios. You can pile in the cores and amortize the costs of memory controllers etc. over a large set of guests.
It is a funny way to get features of both worlds. One reason to want colo (rather than VMs) is for predictability, but laptops still give you the funny throughput problems, because of thermal throttling instead of competing guests.
Aside from this probably being a scam or dead project, but they do say they either remove or disable batteries. Either way battery can be removed.
> - Repairing old failed laptop components is more difficult than old servers.
I think "run it until it's dead" kind of thing.
Sure that can work for individuals and small groups with physical separate high availability. It maybe faster and simpler to find another replacement, but I'm thinking about it from a permaculture perspective of sometimes old parts inventory exist somewhere for cheap or it's only a small broken component that could be fixed to avoid unnecessary e-waste contributions and spending more money on consumption to fix a problem.
Typical enterprise server lifecycle is 4-6 years purposefully throws away uncertain remaining potential value because budgets needs to be spent, risk aversion to repairing what's considered "outdated", and possibly acquiring faster and more energy-efficiency equipment. I would guess it's about the same lifecycle length for enterprise and personal laptops too.
I do this at my homelab and it’s a really fun thing to do. Collect old laptops and install Linux or Tart for macOS and suddenly you have a fleet of computing power equivalent to paying thousands to AWS. Building reliability and failover is actually a fun engineering problem, use CockroachDB and RustFS. Adding capacity is just about scouting for second hand ewaste.
would really like to see a writeup an some pictures about this !
This is CLEARLY a scam.
There is no way they are partnering with Hetzner, or charging just 7€/month flat rate... they specifically want to know the model of the laptop, and offer to send send a courrier to your door...
I would be really surprised if this was a scam. It doesn't have the smell of a scam at all. Who would target a very tech savvy audience just to get old laptops?
Given that the "sign up" link goes to a survey form, my guess is this is just some idea someone had and they made this page to see if anyone actually wants it before they put any effort into making it happen.
Colo scams are pretty common. Some percentage of people will offer to send expensive laptops, and the scammers can discard the rest of "interested customers".
It is inviable to colo old laptops, a regulatory nightmare - Hetzner would NEVER accept those in their datacenters. It is also absurd to think they are partnering with Hetzner to begin with.
It makes no sense to believe they will even EXPORT laptops from Europe to the US if you choose the US location. It just makes no sense, so I don't get why I am getting downvoted.
Just because it isn't a real product doesn't mean it is a scam.
As I said, it is most likely just collecting interest for a potential business idea.
You're being down-voted because it pretty clearly isn't a scam. It has none of the tell tail signs of a scam.
What's the difference between this and 1. setting my laptop at home and 2. connect it through Tailscale?
I lose ownership of my laptop, you install whatever software you want on it (with the security risks that it conveys) and in turn "you let me connect to my computer"?
Well connectivity (speed) and energy stability may be 2 of them (your internet may go down along with electricity).
Or look at it another way: you wanted to buy/rent a server you intended to put in datacenter anyway. Now you can do the same with laptop.
Jokes on you I got a 20kWh backup UPS on the entire house.
Now on a serious note: internet can go down anywhere, even for them. There is nowhere stated that, if your old hardware misbehaves, you can use others, and there are privacy concerns with running your stuff on their software stack… So I don’t see a huge advantage honestly.
What’s the point if I can just connect it to my router and not pay any money to anyone, expect some electricity price, which would be like ten times cheaper. My old laptop is capable of a gigabit connection and so my home internet. That’s plenty for anything I can imagine.
Redundancy, I hear you saying! What if you’d have no electricity for an hour? OK then. I’d have another laptop at some else place then, and have two powerful servers for like still one fifth of the price. Can you beat that?
Hey, this is great. Many of my old laptops become my "servers", so I'd definitely pay for this.
One question I have, in case someone from CoLaptop is reading:
So, one time I had this White "Chiclet" MacBook and I had it powered on all the time, I didn't know at the time but that destroyed the battery and when I unplugged it/plugged it again (because I moved it to a different place after like 4 years) it just didn't power up, fortunately I was able to extract the HDD and its contents.
Now I have one old MacBook Air and one old MacBook Pro as "servers", and I regularly disconnect them from power (but keep them on), I do this for like a day every 3-4 weeks, and haven't had that issue, battery health is still good etc...
So, what do you recommend for this? Or is this something you'll do as part of the CoLo service?
Old laptops are also notorious[1] for being fire bombs with bad batteries.
If I was a hetzner customer I'd be pissed if my server burned because someone's 2 minute battery life 10 year old school pc was hosted in the neighbouring rack.
Doesn't seem like a great business idea.
[1]: anecdotally, seems everyone has a laptop lying around with a cursed battery
That's what I was thinking too, don't data centers have policies about this stuff? I wonder who'd be liable if your laptop burst into flames
Does anybody know if they also accept mac minis? Or is the keyboard/display a fundamental requirement to their offering?
tons of places do mac mini colo, https://www.macminivault.com/mac-mini-colocation/
Marco tells us that if you have 48 Mac minis, buy them yourself and rent a rack.
How does that work if you don't live near the colo?
Most colos provide remote hands - a recent ATP talks about it.
https://www.colocrossing.com/managed-service/remote-hands/
Become the Cloud.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/26/04/07/giant-mac-mini-cl...
lots of proxmox clusters in basements run on old laptops. my pile of t480s beats any cloud vm (except when my ISP goes down).
This looks really cool.
I have never colo'd my laptop, but I do work off my Windows laptop from my Mac via Parsec (remote viewing software for gaming) and by flipping system settings so my Windows machine never turns off when connected to the power bank and lid is closed. There are obviously hiccups (if internet goes out, if Windows decides to restart from an update, etc.), but it mostly just works and I think I've only had 2 instances in the past 3 months where it's gone offline. I use Tailscale on top to provide a universal mouse server for my 3d mouse, and I'm able to magically CAD from my Mac.
Highly recommend if you need to use one OS/machine for some specific software (especially if it's beefy/heavy) but prefer using another as your daily driver.
Very strongly reminds me of Mac Mini Colo - https://www.macminivault.com/mac-mini-colocation/ - it's a clever idea.
Not sure if this is legit... I could see it working well enough if they require the laptop to support at least say thunderbolt3/usb4 then they can use a single connection interface to a management/dock interface that includes a network connection (1gb/2.5gb)
The trouble is a lot of laptops won't power-on with the screen closed and have heavy sleep/suspend behaviors in general. Not to mention general airflow in whatever shelving system is used with the laptops, assuming 2-4 laptops per shelf, per 1u. Not to mention, one would probably want/need some means of ensuring appropriate driver support, or an appropriate Linux or other setup for said hardware.
While I can see it working, depending on shipping costs can definitely see some problematic bits.
Any recommendations on inexpensive colo for personal projects/servers? A few years ago ran across a few links for places to host a box and I didn't save them, and have regretted it.
ISTR one was basically just industrial office space that was running a lower-tier colo, and another was some guys in a metro area that got a rack in a data center and were spreading the cost around with other like-minded folks. At my work I have machines in an Iron Mountain facility, but for personal projects I don't need anything like that, but I'd like something that's more capable than AWS that I'm paying $80/mo for a couple VMs.
EC2 is pricey if it's all you're getting from AWS. If you have wierd requirements, colo may be a good option. Otherwise, just get a VPS or 3 and be done with it. You'll get a virtual KVM that lets you boot it off an ISO and set it up the way you want.
Vultr, DigitalOcean, Linode, ... are long established VPS players.
I'm cheap and buy VPSes off deals on lowendtalk.com. e.g. my backups are on a VPS with 3TB disk, 2GB RAM, 1 vCPU, USD7/mo. I suspect your USD80/mo budget would stretch to something amazing, by comparison.
I'm familiar with Vultr, DO, Linode, none of them seem to have pricing that is compelling beyond EC2. OVH and Hetzner have some potentially compelling plans, but then I'm only saving a little bit.
The call-out for colo is largely to save me from having to engineer a setup at my house for getting my Dell R720 with 256GB RAM online (switching to bridging, setting up a firewall/load balancer with backup, segmenting the networks). That does become easier if I decide I'm ok with 1gig rather than bumping it up to 10gig.
> Your laptop should be fully functional with a working power supply and either an ethernet port or USB port for connectivity. Age isn't a factor. We might modify your laptop to remove or power down the battery, wireless radios, etc. to ensure it can be used safely in the data center.
So they're going to open the laptop up and make hardware modifications to random laptops sent in? May as well have a VPS at that point.
A far better business offering would have been to offer pre-selected physical devices where such things are well known.
I had this idea for dirt-cheap colo where it's just a warehouse that has warehouse racks for putting whatever you want on the rack. Rates based on linear feet, bandwidth, and power consumption. Power would be delivered with a 15-minute uptime guarantee, meaning you have at least 15 minutes to gracefully shut down in the event of loss of power.
Advantage is reasonably secure location and quality Internet connection. Target market is nerds who don't want all that crap in their closets.
I presently use an extra laptop to compute and run for batch jobs. Easy, fast.
It's an interesting idea, and it might even work for some people who have overpowered gaming laptops that can't run Windows 11 (thanks, Microsoft!). But man, people have no idea how powerful just a few cores of a modern AMD EPYC are. Try a Linode instance with a few dedicated cores and see if that's competitive with shipping your old alienware to a colo.
This is never a good idea.
A ton of old batteries in one place. The batteries themselves are probably not a concern, but if something happens to the facility, then you have a ton of problems.
Security of the facility is a concern if someone can get in and walk out with an armful of laptops.
Laptops don’t scale from a stacking stand point. Sure, close the lids and line them up. Then you’ll have a lot of failures. Older laptops are intended to cool through the keyboard and top vents by the screen.
Instead of critiquing this immediately, let's consider that this gives a second life to hardware that would otherwise be thrown away.
The core density is really low. You can run a 96 core Epyc from the previous generation at 700 W and that’s a lot of compute. It makes sense for a home server (and I have an old Mac playing that role at home) but otherwise I don’t think it makes sense unless you’re taking off the display and racking them super tight.
Even then, you’re probably better off with Cloudflare tunnel and using it as a home server.
Finding laptops that can support multiple hard drives is becoming more challenging every year. The 15"-17" workstation class Dell Precision, Lenovo P*, HP Zbook, and Framework 16 laptops are well suited to this purpose. Some of them even came with Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM support.
I don't want to crap on peoples ideas. Really, I don't.
But getting some closet case computer with unknown hardware and turning it into a server, at scale, is an impossible scheme.
The only way to make it work would be to buy hundreds of laptops at once and refurb, new storage, and standardize with custom power delivery. Because who wants hundreds of laptop PSU's plugged into power strips. And those do in fact die.
And then there's the horror of manually removing wifi hardware and batteries. Battery disposal is an issue. And having worked on hundreds of laptops, some of them are major pains in the neck to get to the battery. Consumer HP's come to mind. The bottom cover can be difficult to remove without breaking any of the clips.
Point of Reference: 27 years in web hosting
They remove the battery! That was my first question.
I have an old Lenovo laptop that works fine with the battery completely removed--but I have to disconnect the power and reconnect it before the soft power-on switch will work. I wonder how they handle powering on finicky laptops with those "soft" power buttons.
Let’s start a company that does this with old phones. If they’re recent waterproof models you could invert them in cold water and rack them pretty densely while managing heat easily. An ice water Beowulf cluster of iPhone 15s would be a lot of compute in one Yeti cooler.
i don't think phones are THAT watertight... they're not tested for long term submersion. usualy they don't even guarantee waterproof rating for more than first two years or when there are signs of wear. should work with some non-conductive oil or fluorintert tho...
I am surprised a serious facility would be happy having 100 old LiPo batteries in a rack. That is a (nasty) fire waiting to happen IMO. These are old batteries that may even have minor physical damage from being dropped and will be in maybe a ~25-30c environment.
Laptop batteries are lithium ion not lithium polymer.
A friend of mine sent it to me and it seems like an interesting option now that hardware pricing has gone insane?
Will they let me send my laptop if I'm a North Korean remote worker?
I've been using Hetzner and OVH, i used to use GCP and AWS, my bills are now 1/10th of what they were
if you do not use their platform specific features, it's better to run on bare metal with redundancy.
I’m curious if they remove the displays. Not every laptop works with the display closed and it might cause heat issues that throttle the CPU or reduce the life of the machine to run it like that long-term.
> “But it works on my machine…” Then we’ll ship your machine
Is finally possible!
This idea kinda makes sense if it's an old Mac mini, since you can't get Mac servers normally. MacBook would be sus due to the battery.
Overall good idea but why is had to be a laptop? A mini computer will be much better for this
Yea this is a stupid idea. Old laptops don't have good performance per watt compared to new servers once you factor in that they are many many times slower.
There is one scenario it would be good for. People running stock trading programs often need a better network and always on environment than they can get at home
I think i like the idea. But why specifically laptops, why won't they accept small computers like thinkcentres for example ?
I've wanted to do that with an old laptop and send it to be hosted at a friend's house.
The advantage I found with a laptop :
1. Only two cables, power and ethernet. Installation and removal is quick.
2. Comes bundled with keyboard and screen so no need for monitor
3. Usually very low power consumption and low heat.
4. Light, it can be stored anywhere.
So to answer your question, I'm guessing all of the above?
Why not old android phones? :-D
7 euro a month and unlimited bandwidth? Seems unlikely.
This is the most vibe-coded looking website possible
It’s as if Claude Code and Bootstrap 3 had had an illegitimate child.
If I am going to pay a colo I am going to get a proper server.
Or run the laptop at home and tunnel
Also sounds like a recipe for fire.
Boss: This is not working! Dev: Works on my machine... Boss: Fine, let us deploy your laptop.
If you ship an old laptop with an old HDD, decent chance it will die in shipping.
A colo laptop seems a bit daft, vs a colo 2nd hand micro desktop?
I use www.vedos.cz vps hosting for 3$ a month. Prague (CZ - EU)
€7/month is mad considering the hardware is my own.
Is it? It doesn't sound outragous to me, given that they provide you with however much power you need, ans also networking and people to maintain the facility.
I asked ChatGPT to estimate how much darwing 15W continuously in Amsterdam would cost you per month, and it came up with a range of 2.58€-3.41€ per month. So that's potentially more than half of their fee.
If your laptop is particularly power efficient, you'd also be subsidizing higher-powered laptops. As far as I see there's nothing preventing you from sending a 400W gaming laptop and mining crypto or running an LLM agent 24/7.
€7/month is both too much and too little.
The cheapest USB KVM-over-IP costs about €50 - that's 8 months of colo fees gone.
Colo 'remote hands' in western countries can cost €120/hour, once all expenses and overheads are taken into account. Admittedly, that's for someone to drop what they're doing and rush to your sever. But getting that laptop unpacked, checked over, labelled, installed in a rack, associated to a customer account, powered up and working is going to cost 3 months of fees at least.
One laptop gets lost or damaged during shipping, or shows up mysteriously broken when the customer claims it worked when they sent it? That's a €200 device gone, 28 months of colo fees. You can argue your way out of it, but the guy doing the arguing is the €120/hour remote hands guy.
It'd be easy to lose money on this.
There's no way they're offering 24/7 KVM for this. Cheap colos you need to write / call to get an on demand KVM then wait some hours or days for a tech to plug it in.
The operator is in no way responsible for shipping damage, not sure why you imply they would be.
Yeah but it overheats and also shuts down to save energy
Two words: ECC RAM
Are you guys even serious on this? Ok, I’d reboot my personal server daily then.
This seems fishy...
So there is no need for docker anymore.
pages.dev, you can't be serious.
Looks like an April 1st article, but there is no date on it.
i just don't understand, why it isn't acceptable to use pages.dev
why we must all spend money on domain to show off our projects?
This particular project imply a financial commitment (it's not like you can walk to the data center right now with random assortment of laptops to be setup today without reserving a rack for a month or so), using a free hosting mean they didn't even spend the minimum.
> all spend money
If your 'project' can't allocate $15 for a domain name then you have a bigger problem with your project. Especially if your project involves taking money from customers.
Wait, whats the point of this if I can have my old laptop running in my garage?
Colocation has reliable power, reliable environmental conditions, and internet connections that are better suited for running servers.
In theory—the data center they'd put your laptop in has a much faster, and more reliable, internet connection than your garage.
That surely depends on a country. Data centre is still better in theory. But in practice, I have very little imagination to use a gigabit connection all to myself.
They can't profit from your garage.
I wonder how their KVM works...
that's how my university did a linux cluster for exercises
sounds like a battery fire waiting to happen
uh yeah i mean we 'colo' at work because its cheaper than buying a windows server with multiple RDP licenses. We have some legacy stuff that must be run on site.... so we buy $200 laptops and people can remote in for years.
Yeah for dev purposes perhaps. Production would be another story.
Vibe code SPAs, not this kind of nonsense.
Is this how we bring "works on my machine" in production? /s
"But it works on my machine!"
"Great. Put your laptop in this box, and we'll send it to the DC."
"Done!"
> Your old laptop packs more CPU power, RAM, and storage than their entry-level offerings
And, if you are lucky, it can compute PI to the fifth decimal, before the thermals kick in. But the battery life is wonderful. /s