In a lot of ways I feel the discourse that he means a nuclear attack buries the lede. This is not likely to happen.
What is more likely to happen is just as bad. Devastating civil infrastructure would put 10s of millions of lives at risk.
And even if one were to look at this from a myopic USA centric lens, has anyone considered how many of these people we were told needed liberation are now radicalized against us?
Contaminating the region with radiation including Israels supply chain and exports wasn't something on my bingo cards.
I guess Israel would just import everything from the US, and expect AIPAC to do it's job at increasing funding once it's own farming sector has been decimated.
Response from Iran: "Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) says it will respond outside the region and deprive the United States and its allies of oil and gas “for many years” if the US crosses “red lines” and attacks civilian facilities."[1]
"Iran has closed all diplomatic and indirect channels of communication with the United States, the state-run Tehran Times reported ..." US media does not seem to have picked up on this, but media in India and China have.[2] But the common source seems to be "Tehran Times", and it's unclear who runs that or where they get their info. New York Times, AP, and AlJazeera are not saying that. Xinhua has a one-line note with no source. The US White House says Vance is talking to somebody. Politico says Vance is on "standby".[3]
The markets dropped. He and his cronies are buying up stocks. Tomorrow he'll say Iran is negotiating and offering something amazing. The stocks will go up and they'll sell. Iran will say they have no idea what he's talking about. Wash and repeat.
If you 'vouch' or 'flag' things the mods don't approve of, it gets disabled on your account.
Confirmed in private conversation with dang [1], he restored it after I promised to behave, and now it stopped working again as I didn't properly toe the line.
Quite hypocritical to give power to the user with the tacit expectation that you share the same opinions and political bent as the moderation team.
---
1: quote: "I'm afraid we took vouching privileges away from your account because you vouched for too many comments that were unsubstantive and/or flamebait and/or otherwise broke the site guidelines"
The question isn't what must be done; look to the very founding of the United States for wisdom on that topic. The only question is, do people have the collective courage to do it?
That would require a level of class consciousness that has been violently suppressed for decades. Although maybe there's some hope based on continual record breaking no kings numbers
No, this is now America's war. Israel has a part in it but the US is the main belligerent at this point and if Trump follows through on his threats he all but guarantees the downfall of the United States. This has gone way too far already and since the internal checks and balances of the United States appear not to be working it will be up to the rest of the world to draw a line. We can not afford to let this spiral into another world war, especially not with multiple nuclear powers involved.
Think of it this way: Iran is isolated on the world stage. But turn it into a significant enough victim and there will be two major religions on either side of a war. That's a recipe for something that could potentially make WWII look 'mild'. I know there are people that actually want this, but let's at least see clearly here: nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody will benefit from that. Even the ones who think they will benefit. Democrats that are supportive of this are hopefully a small enough minority that sanity will prevail.
Think avalanche: you can start one, but you can't stop one. Avalanches stop themselves, but only when all potential energy is expended.
Unless Trump perceives a new unexpected threat I don't see him backing down. Russian and Chinese opposition has been accounted for.
Europe's more belligerent opposition as opposed toothless diplomatic speeches may give them a reason to pause. Say, cancellations of major contracts where the primary beneficiary would have been the US.
Don't know whether it will happen, but am happy to see some European countries to take a stand and back their stand with more than words.
Europe has one 'weapon' they can use but they can use it just once: dump the bonds. The problem with that is that you need a reason big enough that by the time you're going to do it it will likely be too late to be effective and as a punitive measure it makes little sense, it's just one step short of a declaration of war. If Trump goes ahead with this madness then tomorrow morning the world economy will be in shambles, no matter what. Note that we got here ostensibly to 'free the Iranian people', apparently they need to be murdered to make them free. It's grotesque.
It is to you and me. Not everyone sees it that way.
When one day the dust settles, hopefully of the benign kind, I wish some lessons to be learned on what kind of leaders to elect.
This has had me so disturbed, that I have barely been able to get much work done for weeks. Work that I enjoy doing. Then I think of Iranian citizens and feel guilty about complaining.
At least we have answers to the question of how World War II started. All it takes is a couple of idiots that think they are all powerful and the stage is set.
Trump is a boomer who grow in a age where American power was incontested. Second, he is a narcisist and he will let Rome burn down before he let someone call him a loser.
Third. Even if our gerontocrat had a saner mind, I doubt he would be able to control Israel. Let them alone fighting Iran, with their missile defense depleted leting Iranian missiles rain down everywhere, Bibi would surely nuke Tehran and the Yemen, so I don't even think there's a way out of this.
That requires that 15 cabinet members invoke the 25th followed by 2/3 of both house of Congress agree. So, yeah, not enough spine involved to count on the 25th in this situation
What precisely are you doing other than posting stuff that pretends that a party in minority in both houses of Congress could actually stop a president, unless some politicians in the majority chose to join them.
And, as underwhelming as the press are, the facts are that surveys show that American's broadly disapprove of the war. Presumably because of what they have learned about it from the press and the opposition.
The people who are responsible are the people in power and their remaining supporters. Aided, arguably, by people who espouse cynical, self-soothing complaints that ignore what most people learn about civics in middle school.
Are you trying to say that the majority of dems don't support this war? Cause they do.
Also are you going to ignore the propaganda pushed by the press leading up to the initial attack? Or that they are still breathlessly parroting propaganda and self censoring right now?
The entire ruling class is responsible for this. The military carrying it out is responsible for it. Anyone in positions of power that have done nothing to stop this but post some strongly worded tweets is responsible.
The US government hasn't been in control of the People for decades and decades. Maybe even longer than that. It doesn't matter what "parties" have been in control. We all know why this war is happening, who benefits, who's lobbying for it, who they bought off, and who Trump answers to. We all know, but people are afraid to say it because they stand to lose once they're targeted for saying it. Voting hasn't stopped it. Party control of Congress hasn't stopped it. Presidents haven't stopped it. It's happening and this was the plan all along from both parties.
How could it be that a political system which remained largely structurally unchanged since the freaking 18th century isn't equipped to deal with everything that has been going on in the world since then?
Kinda yeah, much like how Americans are taught that they are a bastion of democracy, yet your convoluted electoral system has led to multiple instances of your president losing the popular vote.
What's truly shocking is that a large part of what got Trump elected in 2024 (and the world in this mess now) was that the GOP cleverly stoked the fears of transgenderism via local-market ad buys during the election. This very play was the reason for much of Trump's gains with various demo's such as black males and hispanics/latinos. So many of these folks were completely triggered by 'grooming' and the ideas that girls are having to compete against transgender girls in their sports. The fact that folks were willing to elect Trump so that a very small number of women wouldn't have to compete against transgenders, is sad beyond words. Perhaps this (will turn into) a lesson well learned, although voters have notoriously short memories. Sophistication of this type among the masses is sorely lacking.
The ruling class has us just where they want us -- so focused on & fearful of losing our little jobs that we don't have context around much else so that we can do a thoughtful job of performing as an electorate. This is how you elect a Donald Trump, as THEY have now learned.
Most people I met who voted for trump may even agree with this, but voted for Trump not because of that irrelevant petit burgeouise fetiche question, but because, hilariously, they thought Trump would be a champion for the working poor and middle classes. Also, a lot of them also, hilariously, thought electing Trump would mean no more wars with the saved money used to save issues like housing and infrastructure.
It's wrong to even frame this as a partisan question. When the leader of a democratic country threatens a nation of 90 million people with genocide, that should be the end of that government on that same day. Where is the entire US population? You hear nothing but crickets, what an utterly passive, terminally ill society.
Protests have been steadily breaking records each time they occur. Protests have been occurring across the country since he took office. This has all been widely publicized
The best example I've seen of things working correctly was with South Korea removing the leader that declared martial law. The South Koreans said nope to that, and removed the head of their government. They just had the moral fortitude to do it.
Are you seriously asking or just using this space as a soapbox?
If you are, here's some useful info:
Every city in the United States has what could be categorized as a standing army in the form of a police force. They are ready and highly trained to violently stop civil unrest.
The police force deploys sophisticated technology and dragnet methodology to track and build profiles on all citizens that attend protests.
Similarly, the media and status quo is captured so thoroughly that all forms of mass protest appear eventually degenerate into lawless havoc to onlookers, which perpetuates a cycle of violence.
The state has no problem in engaging in mass arrests. And when the cultural moment has moved on, individuals are stuck fighting extreme charges and face having to make the difficult choice of pleaing out to resume what semblance of life remains. And if you want to fight, risk facing some of the most inhumane conditions in the developed world by spending some time in a federal prison.
It is not quoted, it is summarized. You are quoting the first sentence of the post, but the certainty implied in that sentence is immediately undercut by the next; “I don’t want it to happen but it probably will”, and made even more muddy by the rest, which continues: “However, now that we have Complete and Total Regime Change, where different, smarter, and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something revolutionarily wonderful can happen, WHO KNOWS? We will find out tonight, one of the most important moments in the long and complex history of the World. 47 years of extortion, corruption, and death, will finally end. God Bless the Great People of Iran!”
The world got so used to Don's deranged bravado, that I doubt that either china or russia have raised their DEFCON status equivalents, as they would probably do, should any other serious american president said the same thing.
Hmm. You just gave me a flashback to Putin's invasion of Ukraine. He was saying all these threatening things, and moving all these troops, but surely he would never do that, right?
Wrong, it turned out. Sometimes bluster isn't bluster. Or perhaps sometimes blusterers back themselves into a corner with their mouth.
How is Trump's threat the most extreme in this war? Hell, "a whole civilization might die tonight?". The islamic regime in Iran has explicitly set wiping out Persian civilization as it's goal, more than 50 years ago. And they've worked hard at it. Or how about:
Iran's regime threatens to make life in the middle east essentially impossible:
In a lot of ways I feel the discourse that he means a nuclear attack buries the lede. This is not likely to happen.
What is more likely to happen is just as bad. Devastating civil infrastructure would put 10s of millions of lives at risk.
And even if one were to look at this from a myopic USA centric lens, has anyone considered how many of these people we were told needed liberation are now radicalized against us?
Contaminating the region with radiation including Israels supply chain and exports wasn't something on my bingo cards.
I guess Israel would just import everything from the US, and expect AIPAC to do it's job at increasing funding once it's own farming sector has been decimated.
Response from Iran: "Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) says it will respond outside the region and deprive the United States and its allies of oil and gas “for many years” if the US crosses “red lines” and attacks civilian facilities."[1]
"Iran has closed all diplomatic and indirect channels of communication with the United States, the state-run Tehran Times reported ..." US media does not seem to have picked up on this, but media in India and China have.[2] But the common source seems to be "Tehran Times", and it's unclear who runs that or where they get their info. New York Times, AP, and AlJazeera are not saying that. Xinhua has a one-line note with no source. The US White House says Vance is talking to somebody. Politico says Vance is on "standby".[3]
A negotiated cease-fire seems unlikely now.
[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2026/4/7/iran-war-li...
[2] https://www.the-independent.com/bulletin/news/iran-mediators...
[3] https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/06/vance-is-on-standby...
> Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) says it will respond outside the region
How? The IGRC is struggling to survive inside Iran.
I guess we’ll find out!
LOL. That's what CNN told you? Or it was Hegseth himself?
The markets dropped. He and his cronies are buying up stocks. Tomorrow he'll say Iran is negotiating and offering something amazing. The stocks will go up and they'll sell. Iran will say they have no idea what he's talking about. Wash and repeat.
As depressing as it sounds, this seems to pretty much sum up the objective of the 2nd Trump admin.
As anticipated - this post got flagged.
An existential crisis as big as this can't be discussed on HN?
If many people 'vouch' for it, it will get unflagged.
If you 'vouch' or 'flag' things the mods don't approve of, it gets disabled on your account.
Confirmed in private conversation with dang [1], he restored it after I promised to behave, and now it stopped working again as I didn't properly toe the line.
Quite hypocritical to give power to the user with the tacit expectation that you share the same opinions and political bent as the moderation team.
---
1: quote: "I'm afraid we took vouching privileges away from your account because you vouched for too many comments that were unsubstantive and/or flamebait and/or otherwise broke the site guidelines"
Unfortunately that's not the way it works. If it's [flagged] [dead] because of user flagging, some users can vouch for it to revive it.
But if it's merely [flagged] (with associated penalties keeping it off the front pages) there is no option for vouching to remove the penalty.
This one is currently [flagged] with no option for vouching.
You are right.
It just draws foolish people that support the IGRC (because the IGRC hates Jews and so do they) and want to use HN for left wing advocacy.
This is what happens when there's no effective opposition. Where are the dems? Where's the press?
I'd also ask what can we regular Joes and Janes do to avoid this disaster?
I can't think of anything other than going out and standing on a street with a placard. can we do anything better than that?
The question isn't what must be done; look to the very founding of the United States for wisdom on that topic. The only question is, do people have the collective courage to do it?
What are they supposed to do here, exactly?
Country wide strike would be a nice start.
That would require a level of class consciousness that has been violently suppressed for decades. Although maybe there's some hope based on continual record breaking no kings numbers
Managed opposition requires qualitatively different resources than a general strike.
This is Israel's war and the American democrats have traditionally been very supportive. Last place to expect anything like what you are calling for.
The dems had clear red lines in how far Israel could go. Palestine? sure, do whatever the fuck you want.
Iran war that would lead to a fucking global economic crisis? Hell no! shut up Bibi!
That's in a gist the difference between the Democrats and the entity who call themselves the Republican party nowadays.
No, this is now America's war. Israel has a part in it but the US is the main belligerent at this point and if Trump follows through on his threats he all but guarantees the downfall of the United States. This has gone way too far already and since the internal checks and balances of the United States appear not to be working it will be up to the rest of the world to draw a line. We can not afford to let this spiral into another world war, especially not with multiple nuclear powers involved.
Think of it this way: Iran is isolated on the world stage. But turn it into a significant enough victim and there will be two major religions on either side of a war. That's a recipe for something that could potentially make WWII look 'mild'. I know there are people that actually want this, but let's at least see clearly here: nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody will benefit from that. Even the ones who think they will benefit. Democrats that are supportive of this are hopefully a small enough minority that sanity will prevail.
Think avalanche: you can start one, but you can't stop one. Avalanches stop themselves, but only when all potential energy is expended.
I agree.
What I mean by Israel's war is that the motivation was Israel's, they got Americans to be their grunts.
I don't see this de-escalating soon unless Europe shows more teeth.
It's pretty much nightmare fuel out there.
> I don't see this de-escalating soon unless Europe shows more teeth.
Can you describe what you have in mind?
Unless Trump perceives a new unexpected threat I don't see him backing down. Russian and Chinese opposition has been accounted for.
Europe's more belligerent opposition as opposed toothless diplomatic speeches may give them a reason to pause. Say, cancellations of major contracts where the primary beneficiary would have been the US.
Don't know whether it will happen, but am happy to see some European countries to take a stand and back their stand with more than words.
Europe has one 'weapon' they can use but they can use it just once: dump the bonds. The problem with that is that you need a reason big enough that by the time you're going to do it it will likely be too late to be effective and as a punitive measure it makes little sense, it's just one step short of a declaration of war. If Trump goes ahead with this madness then tomorrow morning the world economy will be in shambles, no matter what. Note that we got here ostensibly to 'free the Iranian people', apparently they need to be murdered to make them free. It's grotesque.
It is to you and me. Not everyone sees it that way.
When one day the dust settles, hopefully of the benign kind, I wish some lessons to be learned on what kind of leaders to elect.
This has had me so disturbed, that I have barely been able to get much work done for weeks. Work that I enjoy doing. Then I think of Iranian citizens and feel guilty about complaining.
At least we have answers to the question of how World War II started. All it takes is a couple of idiots that think they are all powerful and the stage is set.
Trump is a boomer who grow in a age where American power was incontested. Second, he is a narcisist and he will let Rome burn down before he let someone call him a loser.
Third. Even if our gerontocrat had a saner mind, I doubt he would be able to control Israel. Let them alone fighting Iran, with their missile defense depleted leting Iranian missiles rain down everywhere, Bibi would surely nuke Tehran and the Yemen, so I don't even think there's a way out of this.
The technical term seems to be: entrapment. The war could have ended after the first few "successful" days.
And still every day it continues, it becomes a little bit harder to back out. Like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan this war cannot be won.
> the internal checks and balances of the United States appear not to be working
There is one last test, but it's not until November. Until then, Trump is on a speed run to destroy everything he can
You need to get to November first.
Hence the speed running part of the comment
There's the 25th too but I dont think anyone with access to that option has the spine.
That requires that 15 cabinet members invoke the 25th followed by 2/3 of both house of Congress agree. So, yeah, not enough spine involved to count on the 25th in this situation
One side controls all branches of the federal government and by and large it controls the media as well.
So how do you propose this strike happen?
From where I'm looking, any kind of resistance is becomes a target to divert the guilt from any failure.
Where are you?
What precisely are you doing other than posting stuff that pretends that a party in minority in both houses of Congress could actually stop a president, unless some politicians in the majority chose to join them.
And, as underwhelming as the press are, the facts are that surveys show that American's broadly disapprove of the war. Presumably because of what they have learned about it from the press and the opposition.
The people who are responsible are the people in power and their remaining supporters. Aided, arguably, by people who espouse cynical, self-soothing complaints that ignore what most people learn about civics in middle school.
Are you trying to say that the majority of dems don't support this war? Cause they do.
Also are you going to ignore the propaganda pushed by the press leading up to the initial attack? Or that they are still breathlessly parroting propaganda and self censoring right now?
The entire ruling class is responsible for this. The military carrying it out is responsible for it. Anyone in positions of power that have done nothing to stop this but post some strongly worded tweets is responsible.
The US government hasn't been in control of the People for decades and decades. Maybe even longer than that. It doesn't matter what "parties" have been in control. We all know why this war is happening, who benefits, who's lobbying for it, who they bought off, and who Trump answers to. We all know, but people are afraid to say it because they stand to lose once they're targeted for saying it. Voting hasn't stopped it. Party control of Congress hasn't stopped it. Presidents haven't stopped it. It's happening and this was the plan all along from both parties.
Corporations run the US government. Elected officials are just proxies.
Yeah remember when democrats president tweeted out about nuking someone
> This is what happens when there's no effective opposition. Where are the dems? Where's the press?
The US is functioning as a banana republic style totalitarian regime for a few years. Even Venezuela has a tougher opposition.
The fatal flaw in our separation of powers is that even if congressional dems had a super majority, congress is powerless to enforce anything.
And the press has been covering Trump's rhetoric and the war pretty heavily.
So the "checks and balances" we were taught in school was just nonsense?
How could it be that a political system which remained largely structurally unchanged since the freaking 18th century isn't equipped to deal with everything that has been going on in the world since then?
It must be due to bad actors.
Kinda yeah, much like how Americans are taught that they are a bastion of democracy, yet your convoluted electoral system has led to multiple instances of your president losing the popular vote.
They weren't nonsense until we had people in positions of power decide that they were.
At the end of the day, pieces of paper are just pieces of paper.
They literally bought the presidency for Trump.
You're preaching to the choir. The oligarchy has indeed thoroughly captured the fourth estate
I think they already captured all.
What's truly shocking is that a large part of what got Trump elected in 2024 (and the world in this mess now) was that the GOP cleverly stoked the fears of transgenderism via local-market ad buys during the election. This very play was the reason for much of Trump's gains with various demo's such as black males and hispanics/latinos. So many of these folks were completely triggered by 'grooming' and the ideas that girls are having to compete against transgender girls in their sports. The fact that folks were willing to elect Trump so that a very small number of women wouldn't have to compete against transgenders, is sad beyond words. Perhaps this (will turn into) a lesson well learned, although voters have notoriously short memories. Sophistication of this type among the masses is sorely lacking.
The ruling class has us just where they want us -- so focused on & fearful of losing our little jobs that we don't have context around much else so that we can do a thoughtful job of performing as an electorate. This is how you elect a Donald Trump, as THEY have now learned.
Most people I met who voted for trump may even agree with this, but voted for Trump not because of that irrelevant petit burgeouise fetiche question, but because, hilariously, they thought Trump would be a champion for the working poor and middle classes. Also, a lot of them also, hilariously, thought electing Trump would mean no more wars with the saved money used to save issues like housing and infrastructure.
It's wrong to even frame this as a partisan question. When the leader of a democratic country threatens a nation of 90 million people with genocide, that should be the end of that government on that same day. Where is the entire US population? You hear nothing but crickets, what an utterly passive, terminally ill society.
Protests have been steadily breaking records each time they occur. Protests have been occurring across the country since he took office. This has all been widely publicized
The best example I've seen of things working correctly was with South Korea removing the leader that declared martial law. The South Koreans said nope to that, and removed the head of their government. They just had the moral fortitude to do it.
They made me incredibly proud that day !
Are you seriously asking or just using this space as a soapbox?
If you are, here's some useful info:
Every city in the United States has what could be categorized as a standing army in the form of a police force. They are ready and highly trained to violently stop civil unrest.
The police force deploys sophisticated technology and dragnet methodology to track and build profiles on all citizens that attend protests.
Similarly, the media and status quo is captured so thoroughly that all forms of mass protest appear eventually degenerate into lawless havoc to onlookers, which perpetuates a cycle of violence.
The state has no problem in engaging in mass arrests. And when the cultural moment has moved on, individuals are stuck fighting extreme charges and face having to make the difficult choice of pleaing out to resume what semblance of life remains. And if you want to fight, risk facing some of the most inhumane conditions in the developed world by spending some time in a federal prison.
So, "where is the entire US population?"
Mostly surviving and scared.
Yeah, why do people think every police department have been able to buy military vehicles and equipments for the last decades? To combat crime? LOL
Why is the post miquoted?
It says: "A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again."
Will. Not might.
It is not quoted, it is summarized. You are quoting the first sentence of the post, but the certainty implied in that sentence is immediately undercut by the next; “I don’t want it to happen but it probably will”, and made even more muddy by the rest, which continues: “However, now that we have Complete and Total Regime Change, where different, smarter, and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something revolutionarily wonderful can happen, WHO KNOWS? We will find out tonight, one of the most important moments in the long and complex history of the World. 47 years of extortion, corruption, and death, will finally end. God Bless the Great People of Iran!”
Thanks, I guess that makes sense.
> A man stands at his home near a synagogue, which was damaged in a strike, in Tehran on Tuesday
Bizarre wording from this website. 90% of Jews in Iran left after the Islamic fundamentalists took over.
By their own choice.
Destruction for no good reason.
Even those who don't care about innocent lives recognize the horrible consequences for everyone else:
- Iran empowered to tax the strait of Hormuz indefinitely with high insurance
- Russia empowered with access to the middle east since the Iranians will have to embrace their only ally
Trump enablers are responsible.
The world will be engulfed in nuclear hellfire, and Hacker News mods will be flagging final sign-off posts as too political.
The world got so used to Don's deranged bravado, that I doubt that either china or russia have raised their DEFCON status equivalents, as they would probably do, should any other serious american president said the same thing.
Fucking clown.
Hmm. You just gave me a flashback to Putin's invasion of Ukraine. He was saying all these threatening things, and moving all these troops, but surely he would never do that, right?
Wrong, it turned out. Sometimes bluster isn't bluster. Or perhaps sometimes blusterers back themselves into a corner with their mouth.
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47674286
That went quickly from "America the supposed liberator is here" to "America is going to genocide your entire civilization."
Another thread that got 'buried':
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47674286
How is Trump's threat the most extreme in this war? Hell, "a whole civilization might die tonight?". The islamic regime in Iran has explicitly set wiping out Persian civilization as it's goal, more than 50 years ago. And they've worked hard at it. Or how about:
Iran's regime threatens to make life in the middle east essentially impossible:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/23/iran-threat-to...
Iran's regime threatens to kill every Iranian they can "before giving Iran back to Iranians":
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/01/16/no-sign-of-new-prot...
This is stupid dumb boomer propaganda.
This is factually correct and shouldn't be downvoted.
Yeah, good luck with that.
I'm sure he'll follow up with bailing the ocean.
I take this seriously and it's made me sick. I can't get any work done when my stomach feels like its doing flips.
You're not alone. I keep hoping there's some sort of fire to put out at work so I can at least be distracted enough for a bit.
I’ve approved like a single PR today. It’s not great.
Yet another genocidal threat. Now Iran needs nukes. Congratulation on amazing diplomacy!